§ 4. Mr. Lewisasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he will state the average rent allowance being received by recipients of National Assistance in the week ended 12th April, 1958, and how this compares with a similar date in April, 1951; and what was the annual rent allowance paid in the financial years ended 5th April, 1951, and 1958, respectively.
§ The Minister of Pensions and National Insurance (Mr. John Boyd-Carpenter)The National Assistance Board informs me that the information asked for is not available. I would, however, refer the hon. Member to the information given in the Board's Annual Report for 1951, which shows that the average rent including rates (or in the case of owner-occupiers rates and an allowance for repairs and mortgage interest) of householders receiving assistance in November, 1951, was 10s. 11d. a week. The corresponding figure for November, 1957, was 16s.
§ Mr. LewisCan the Minister say the reason, or will he ascertain the reason, why the National Assistance Board cannot give this information? Surely the Board must know in the course of a financial year just how much National Assistance is allocated for a specific purpose, and surely it is able to compare one year with the next? If the Minister has not this information, will he take steps to get it so that the House may have it?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterThe hon. Gentleman will be aware that what information is and is not available on the subject has been quite lengthily discussed in the House, and I think he himself has taken part in the discussion. I have nothing whatever to add.
§ 5. Mr. Lewisasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he will arrange for all old-age pensioners 591 to recover from the National Assistance Board, on production of their rent books, the weekly increases in their rents which have applied since 6th April last.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterNo, Sir. Eligibility for National Assistance depends upon need assessed in accordance with the scales approved by Parliament and not upon receipt of a contributory National Insurance retirement pension, which is, of course, payable without any test of means.
§ Mr. LewisDoes not the Minister think it rather immoral to expect these old-age pensioners to have two rent increases in less than twelve months—in some instances, to my own knowledge, amounting to as much as 25s. a week—while the Chancellor of the Exchequer, by reducing the Profits Tax, is giving extra to those who receive dividends? Is it not unfair to place this extra financial burden on the old-age pensioners while giving it back to the Surtax payers, who in any case had it last year?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterI am not going to debate the Budget with the hon. Gentleman at Question Time. On the suggestion embodied in his Question, it seems quite impossible to commend the proposition that the taxpayer, through the National Assistance system, should provide an additional payment to people without any test of their needs whatever, including people in all conditions of life. That is the hon. Gentleman's proposal, and I do not accept it.