HC Deb 26 November 1957 vol 578 cc970-1
14. Mr. Iremonger

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government the annual total of taxpayers' money paid out by the Exchequer under the Housing Acts of 1919, 1924, 1946 and 1949; to what extent this sum will vary in years to come; which categories of Her Majesty's subjects are calculated to benefit from these payments, and in what respect; and upon what principle and by whom these categories are selected.

Mr. H. Brooke

Approximately £45 million. Subsidies under the 1919 and 1924 Acts will start coming to an end in the early 1960s. Subsidies under the 1946 Act run for sixty years from the time the houses were built, those under the 1949 Act for varying periods from twenty years upwards.

Those who benefit from these subsidies are tenants of local authority houses whose rents are reduced. Tenants are chosen according to housing need by housing authorities, who have been given this responsibility by Parliament.

Mr. Iremonger

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the whole system is quite unjustifiable by any social, moral or economic criteria as applied to the economic circumstances of today?

Mr. Brooke

I think that I might have difficulty in answering that supplementary question without impinging upon my hon. Friend's next Question.

15. Mr. Iremonger

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he is satisfied that the provision of taxpayers' money to pay part of the true economic rent of the generality of tenants of council houses is justified in the circumstances of today; and whether he will introduce legislation to direct this money to improve the housing of elderly people instead.

Mr. H. Brooke

I am sure that some subsidy is necessary in many cases, particularly in relation to houses built since the war. But we all know that nowadays the circumstances of council tenants vary widely; and a local authority which has the interests of its poorer tenants and of its poorer ratepayers at heart will ensure that the subsidies it receives are directed to helping those who need help, and to the extent to which they need it. If local authorities pool their rents and adopt differential rent schemes they should be well able to provide accommodation for elderly people at rents within their means.

Mr. Iremonger

I thank my right hon. Friend for the wisdom of his reply, but does he not agree that the old system is very much too haphazard and that it is now time that he and his right hon. Friends took cognizance of this problem and tried to organise the system properly?

Mr. Brooke

I take cognizance of everything, but I am not anxious to interfere with the discretion of local authorities. Nevertheless, it does disappoint me that, up to the present, only about one-seventh of the local authorities have adopted any kind of differential rent scheme.

Mr. Mitchison

Is not the Minister aware that council housing is a social service and not a form of charity?

Mr. Brooke

I am always suspicious when hon. Members opposite use the phrase "social service", because they always seem to me to imply that somebody else should pay for it even if the recipient can afford to do so.

Mr. Lindgren

If the Minister is so anxious for differential rent schemes, will he apply the same to private landlords in regard to the Rent Act, 1957, in the light of the extreme hardship caused to old-age pensioners?

Mr. Brooke

That is an entirely different question.