§ 2. Mr. Brockwayasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what decisions have been reached as a result of his official visit to Kenya regarding an increase in African representation in the Legislative Council and other constitutional changes.
§ 15. Mr. K. Robinsonasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on his discussions in Kenya about possible changes in the constitution.
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydBefore leaving Nairobi on 8th November, I made a made a statement to all groups in the Legislative Council setting out the constitutional arrangements which in the view of Her Majesty's Government would be required to replace those of 1954 which by the resignation of the European and Asian Elected Ministers, had become unworkable. The text of this statement will be presented to Parliament this afternoon as a White Paper.
§ Mr. BrockwayIn view of the great breakdown of the Lyttelton constitution and the opposition of the African representatives to the proposed new constitution, would it not be desirable that, instead of an improvised scheme which no one can hope will last ten years, there should now be a constitutional conference with representatives of all the groups with a view to finding a long-term solution?
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydThe Lyttelton constitution did not, as the hon. Gentleman would suggest, break down until the European and Asian Ministers restored the initiative to the Secretary of State by their resignation. Throughout the whole period that I was in Kenya I was applying my mind to what, I hoped, would be the settlement that would emerge from negotiations between the different races, so that it was in no sense improvised when I announced it as the intention of Her Majesty's Government. I very much hope that, on reflection, those who do not at the moment feel happy about this 1113 settlement will come to realise the very real advantages it will bring. Incidentally, the number of Africans in the Legislative Council will, under Her Majesty's Government's settlement, be more than doubled.
§ Mr. RobinsonMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman two questions? First, does he intend to impose this constitution in view of the news today about its reception by the African members? Secondly, can he say a little more about the Council of State, which is very vague in the statement he made? What is the purpose of the Council of State if the Colonial Office is going to retain ultimate control during the whole duration of this constitution?
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydAs to the hon. Gentleman's first question, I announced a settlement which it fell to me to announce because of the freedom that had been restored to me by the resignation of the elected Ministers. As to the Council of State, I have not as yet worked out the full details of a body which is not designed in any way solely to protect the interests of minorities but to protect the interests of all races in Kenya. It would have powers of delay, revision and reference. It would also have certain powers in relation to any changes in the inter-communal seats, either in their total number or their method of election. In the view of many careful students of Kenya of all races, a body of this kind ought to have a reassuring effect on all who have made their home there and, not least, on the Africans themselves.
§ Mr. CallaghanIs it not the case that the European members resigned in order to promote greater understanding—that was the reason they gave? Therefore, is it not important that the Colonial Secretary should be able to carry all the races with him, including the Africans, in any new arrangements Her Majesty's Government initiate? So will he please not shut his mind to the prospect of a conference if the alternative is to start off in an atmosphere in which one major political group gives notice that it is not going to take part?
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydI cannot regard the statement last night as being in any sense representative of African opinion as a 1114 whole. It was open to the representatives of any or every race to put forward proposals to me while I was in Kenya, including proposals for a conference of that kind; and, naturally, I should have considered them on their merits. But, in my view and in the view of my colleagues, the settlement I have announced will commend itself to men of good will of all races, and I am content to wait to see how the pattern unfolds.
§ Mr. CallaghanI do not want anything I say to lead the Colonial Secretary to think that his efforts were not praiseworthy. I think the right hon. Gentleman made a vigorous effort, although I disagree with some of the points contained in the proposals he put forward. But does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is vital he should carry all the races with him, otherwise there will be no future for Kenya; and therefore, if his expectations of the future should not be borne out over the next few weeks, will he, before imposing this constitution, consider once again calling all the parties together?
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydI agree with the hon. Gentleman it is highly desirable that anyone in my office should carry all the races with him in any settlement arrived at. But Her Majesty's Government have arrived at a settlement, and I think that to have second thoughts about it now would be worse than having no settlement. I am convinced that, on reflection, this will carry the support of all races and of the people fully entitled to claim that they speak for the different communities.
Mr. Creech JonesIn order to elucidate the Government's plan, may I ask on what principle the Governor will nominate to the Legislative Council in order to preserve the local government majority? Secondly, why is it desirable to create a Council of Ministers if the proportion in the non-communal section of the Legislative Council is frozen? Thirdly, would it not ease the situation if Her Majesty's Government could make a declaration that their ultimate purpose is the establishment of a political democracy in Kenya, with safeguards for the minorities so that we do not shelter behind ambiguous words like "multiracial" and "partnership communities"?
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydI will try to answer the right hon. Gentleman's three questions. Regarding the principles which will guide the Governor in exercising his power of nomination, his discretion must be quite unfettered, but he will look at the country as a whole and arrive at the decisions that seem to him best. May I say that anyone visiting Kenya now would come away immensely impressed with the standing and authority of His Excellency in the minds of all people of all races in Kenya. There is no question here of creating a Council of Ministers; the Council was created in 1954 and it remains—
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydA Council of State and not the Council of Ministers. The purpose of that was to meet the need which I found among all sections, not only Europeans and Asians, but Africans as well. The more experience I have of West Africa, the more I realise that in a purely African community there is the same desire for safeguards of this kind. It is to provide a feeling of security for the people of all races.
As to the ultimate purpose, I made clear what is the ultimate purpose in Kenya. For a long time there will have to be Colonial Office control. I do not foresee a date at this moment when it would be possible for the Colonial Office to relinquish control. The ultimate purpose would be to enable all who have made their homes in Kenya, of whatever race, to feel that they have an enduring rôle to play and that the standards they have set shall be maintained.
§ Major WallThe Lyttelton constitution was introduced subject to a review for a period of years. Can my right hon. Friend say whether he has some similar suggestion about the new constitution.
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydIn the proposals I have made, the only aspect that was frozen for a period of ten years was the proportion between the different communities for the inter-communal seats. The Europeans had asked for five members—that would be five Europeans, two Africans, two Asians and one Arab. They were strictly entitled to that under the 1956 agreement. In my statement I changed that to four representatives of 1116 each community, four Europeans, four Africans and four Asians, including one Arab. The Europeans and Africans wished to include one Arab. I regard that as a fair solution, and one which ought to survive for a period of ten years.
Mr. DugdaleThe right hon. Gentleman talks of this as a settlement. I understand that it is his proposed settlement and not a definite settlement. Is that so? The right hon. Gentleman says that the African statement yesterday does not represent African opinion. How does the right hon. Gentleman hope to ascertain African opinion if he does not think that this represents it?
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydRegarding the right hon. Gentleman's phraseology about whether this was a settlement or a proposed settlement, with the resignation of the European and Asian Ministers discretion was entirely restored to Her Majesty's Government, and the situation reverted to what it was before the Lyttelton constitution. Her Majesty's Government were free to say what should he the pattern for the future. I have therefore said on behalf of the Government what is the pattern. I regard that as a settlement—
§ Mr. CallaghanThat is an award, not a settlement.
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydI do not propose to quarrel with the hon. Gentleman about that. As to the method whereby one gauges what is the feeling of Africans in this matter, the right hon. Gentleman knows that it is extremely difficult, but I am confident that if we give this a chance and the six uncompensated seats are elected in the near future and the four inter-communal African seats are elected—which means ten more Africans—there will be seen a real advantage to the African people which they will not be slow in making clear they recognise as a real gain.
§ Mr. SpeakerMr. Mallalieu, Question No. 4.
§ Mr. BrockwayOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Question No. 3 has not yet bean called.
§ Mr. SpeakerIt is so long ago since I called Question No. 2 that I had forgotten. I hope we shall make better progress, because we are proceeding very slowly. Mr. Brockway, Question No. 3.