HC Deb 08 May 1957 vol 569 cc979-85
The Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Derick Heathcoat Amory)

With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House, I should like to make a statement about the Report of the Balfour Committee on the export of cattle to the Continent for slaughter, which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland and I have very carefully considered.

The Committee concluded that save to a very limited extent the alternative of a carcase trade is not practicable and that the journey to the Continent is not a sufficient reason for prohibiting the trade in live animals. The Committee said, however, that it had been concerned by evidence that cattle are sometimes sent on long train journeys after arrival on the Continent. Its main recommendation was designed to ensure that internal transit after disembarkation would be over relatively short distances and that satisfactory arrangements would be made for accommodating, handling and slaughtering the animals.

We fear that it would be difficult to adopt the Committee's suggestion that the trade should be allowed only to small countries or territories, but we propose, as a matter of urgency, to consult the authorities of the countries concerned with a view to securing mutually acceptable arrangements for mitigating the conditions that, in recent months, have given rise to public criticism.

The Committee made a number of recommendations designed to increase the protection afforded to cattle before they leave this country. We shall continue the veterinary inspection of all cattle being exported for slaughter on the Continent, which has been in operation since 26th February this year under the permissive powers conferred by the Exported Cattle Protection Order, 1957. This will ensure that no unfit cattle are allowed to be exported, and we propose to make this inspection a statutory requirement, as recommended by the Committee.

We also propose to discuss as soon as possible with the interests concerned the recommendations relating to strengthening the conditions applicable to the rest period before export.

The Committee recommended one or two amendments to the regulations governing the carriage of animals by sea. Some rather technical points are involved and, here again, we propose to consult the interests concerned as a matter of urgency.

We are drawing to the attention of British Railways the Committee's recommendations which concern them.

Finally, the Committee made one or two general recommendations of a longterm nature, including the suggestion that the disbudding of calves and the use of the electric goad, instead of the drover's stick, should be encouraged. We are in sympathy with these recommendations, which we propose to bring to the notice of the interests primarily concerned.

We should like to thank sincerely Lord Balfour of Burleigh and his Committee for the expeditious manner in which it carried out the task which was entrusted to it at very short notice.

Mr. T. Williams

I welcome the positive steps which the right hon. Gentleman proposes to take. Before dealing with the Continental authorities about long journeys from one country to another and other such extremely difficult matters, will he tell us what is likely to be done about paragraph 10 of the Report, relating to our slaughterhouses being well below the standard required by the American Veterinary Corps? As the right hon. Gentleman happens to be the prime person concerned with Recommendation 21, relating to the dehorning or disbudding of calves, will he take positive steps in that matter by paying a differential price for disbudded calves under the calf subsidy?

Mr. Amory

On the point raised by the right hon. Gentleman about slaughterhouses, I think that some people have read the implications of the evidence given to the Committee rather more widely than perhaps was justified. In fact, several of our slaughterhouses have been approved by the American authorities, but, as it happens, no meat from those slaughterhouses has yet been exported to the Continent.

I am hoping shortly to issue new draft regulations laying down fresh standards for hygiene and for the avoidance of cruelty of any kind in our slaughterhouses. Those regulations will not bear the force of law until it has been possible to find time in our Parliamentary programme for legislation to implement them, but they will be a guide to those who are improving and developing new slaughterhouses.

I believe that, in general, the dehorning of cattle is an extremely sensible thing, and I am anxious to encourage it. I will consider the point which has been raised by the right hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Williams

During the discussions and activities on this point, will the right hon. Gentleman press British Railways very hard, since, according to this Report, the chances are that there is much more cruelty during railway transport in this country than on the Continent?

Mr. Amory

I think the right hon. Gentleman will agree that, on the whole, British Railways come extremely well out of this Report and that the evidence is that they take a great deal of trouble to see that there is no avoidable discomfort to animals during transit. But there is the question particularly of the size of our wagons and the method of charging. I will have consultations with British Railways on both those points. I believe that we shall find them extremely anxious to be helpful so far as they can.

Sir T. Moore

I appreciate my right hon. Friend's promises about early action. But will he bear in mind that many people in this country will find the result of the Committee disappointing and that, in fact, they will not be satisfied until there is a complete prohibition of this trade? At the same time, I think that the majority of our people will be prepared to wait and see in order to ensure that the promises given by my right hon. Friend bear good fruit.

Mr. Amory

I will bear in mind what my hon. Friend has said. I would ask anyone who is not satisfied with the Report— if such people there be— to read it very carefully and to remember that the members of this Committee are people not only of wide experience, but of great personal humanity.

Mr. Short

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is far more humane and a much better economic proposition to slaughter animals here and then to export the canned meat? Will he consult the President of the Board of Trade about some particulars which I have sent to the right hon. Gentleman, showing the considerable difficulties placed in the way of a Tyneside firm of canned meat exporters by the German authorities?

Mr. Amory

I agree with what the hon. Gentleman says. The general trend of substituting trade in carcase meat for the trade in live cattle is one to be encouraged in every possible way. I will have consultations with my right hon. Friend on the matter raised by the hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Paget

On the question of the animals on which the beef subsidy has been paid, was it the intention that the subsidy should be made available to the European housewife rather than the British housewife? Secondly, how do we stand regarding our trade agreements with the Continent when we export subsidised animals?

Mr. Amory

Animals on which subsidy has been paid are a small proportion of the trade. These animals are predominantly unsubsidised animals. In so far as they are subsidised, we must remember that our subsidy is not a specific export subsidy. It is a general subsidy to encourage efficient production. The animals which are exported are those providing meat of a type our consumers are not interested in buying at present. One has to remember those considerations in assessing this problem.

Mr. Hurd

Will my right hon. Friend note that the action which he has already taken has removed a good deal of public anxiety, particularly in towns like Reading, which is a transit centre of this trade, and that he will have full support for any further measures he may taken effectively at home to overcome cruelty and mishandling of cattle? Would it not be practicable to make provision in any export licence for the cattle that when they have got to the Continent they should be slaughtered within, say, eight hours of landing?

Mr. Amory

What my hon. Friend has suggested may turn out to be a possible line of action, but I think it is appropriate that we should consult the authorities in the countries concerned before we decide what is the most sensible action we could take to achieve the object we all have in mind.

Mr. Woodburn

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that great distress has been caused to people by reports of calves being sent long distances and being slaughtered without having had one drink? It causes great distress to people to think that these calves do not receive humane treatment even in our country, and that they are taken long distances, sometimes from Scotland into England, and that some are slaughtered without having had a drink or one meal. Surely something should be done to relieve the anxiety that that kind of cruelty takes place.

Mr. Amory

In so far as those calves travel on the railways, of course they would be subject to the present regulations. The railways do make provision for regular drinking. In so far as they are conveyed in lorries, control is far harder.

Mr. Fell

Is my right hon. Friend aware that even since the publication of this Report there really is still very great anxiety indeed, particularly in East Anglia, although I have no doubt it exists in other parts of the country as well? It is really a little difficult to understand from the statement that my right hon. Friend has made today that this anxiety will be diminished very much.

The main cause of the anxiety, I think, Ls the question of watering. Would it not be possible to come to a very definite arrangement with the countries on the other side of the Channel, and to make certain that it is carried out on this side of the Channel, too, to solve this one question of watering, which, I think. is probably more important than any other? As for the size of British trucks. could not fewer animals be put in them at a time?

Mr. Amory

I agree with my hon. Friend that there is strong feeling legitimately on this subject. I should like to assure him that I am very serious when I say that my colleagues and I are determined to do everything we possibly can to remove all the defects the Committee has brought to light in its Report. I agree with my hon. Friend that watering is the most important single defect. I would hope that the consultations which we are to have urgently with the foreign countries concerned will get over that defect, at any rate.

As for the transit of animals here at home, I believe that we have got over that difficulty now. If there is any defect remaining there I should be very glad if it were brought to my notice, since in this country it would be wholly under our control.

Mr. Champion

So that a stigma should not be cast upon this balanced Report, will the right hon. Gentleman recognise, in his negotiations with other countries, that it was not intended to be discriminatory against countries, but was concerned with the long distances travelled? That was the whole point of the Report. We are extremely anxious about that and hope that the Minister will be very careful in what he does to ensure that there is not a continuation of long-distance travel after disembarkation on the other side.

Mr. Amory

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I believe that if we can get over the difficulty of the long journeys on the other side the whole problem will become manageable. I was grateful to the Committee for highlighting that aspect of the problem.

I would take this opportunity of thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Lady Tweedsmuir) and the hon. Gentleman the Member for Derbyshire, South-East (Mr. Champion) for their work on the Committee. I was very glad that we had two Members of this House on that Committee. I know that they both went to great personal inconvenience to do their work upon it, including making some very hurried trills. I was most grateful to the whole Committee for the expeditious manner in which it accomplished its work.

Lady Tweedsmuir

When he has his conversations with the continental authorities, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the difficulties there have been already in the enforcement of some existing regulations, and also the fact that many of these cattle, by the time they reach the Continent, have already had long sea journeys, for instance, from Scotland to Germany, with no rest period? What is my right hon. Friend's view of the suggestion that there should be a filter price to eliminate low-quality cattle?

Mr. Amory

It is very relevant to consider that any journey which takes place on the other side of the water is on top of journeys made in the United Kingdom and upon the sea, and I will certainly bear that in mind.

As to the filter price, we have felt that there is no solution to be found along those lines. It is true that it provided a solution in the case of the horse traffic, but the problem here is rather different. The price of the cattle changes substantially and quite rapidly, and there are many different grades of cattle, whereas with the horses it was possible simply to draw a line between valuable horses for breeding on the one side and horses for slaughter on the other. The question of drawing the line among the cattle is not so simple.

Mr. Hastings

Would the right hon. Gentleman make a further statement to the House when he has carried out the necessary consultations with continental transport and other authorities? Will he also note that in the Report not only is the question of watering these animals dealt with, but that the question of feeding them with the proper fodder comes in as well? Will he give attention to that and make the necessary regulations accordingly?

Mr. Amory

Yes, Sir, I will pay attention to both the matters that the hon. Gentleman has raised. Knowing the interest that the House has taken in this matter, I will gladly make a further statement when the consultations have taken place.