HC Deb 26 June 1957 vol 572 cc178-81
3. Mr. Lipton

asked the Minister of Defence whether he will now state what compensation will be paid to Regular officers and non-commissioned officers to be discharged from the Services as redundant.

6 and 7. Mr. G. Brown

asked the Minister of Defence (1) when he expects to be in a position to inform those members of Her Majesty's Forces whose services will be terminated as a result of the Government's defence policy;

(2) whether he will now state the compensation terms for the officers and men whose services will be terminated as a result of the Government's defence policy.

Mr. Sandys

A scheme for compensation to be paid to Regular officers and non-commissioned officers who have to be prematurely discharged as a result of the contraction of the forces is being prepared and I hope to be able to make an announcement in the course of the next few weeks.

Plans for the detailed implementation of our defence policy are also proceeding and certain decisions should be ready for announcement shortly. Until the necessary changes in structure and distribution within each Service are settled in detail, it will obviously not be possible to decide exactly how many officers and N.C.O.s in each branch are redundant.

I am fully aware of the anxiety which exists among those who may be affected; and I can promise them that we shall make every effort to inform them of their position at the earliest moment practicable.

Meanwhile, I can tell them that we are examining how far it is possible, consistent with the efficiency of the Services, to give individuals within the categories concerned an opportunity of applying voluntarily for release with appropriate compensation. Though I cannot yet say for certain, it is my hope that we may be able to effect in this way a substantial proportion of the reductions needed.

Mr. Lipton

Is not the Minister heartless to keep thousands of officers and senior warrant officers and their families in suspense for months on end? Is this the right way to treat loyal servants of the State, and is not it having a distastrous effect on recruiting?

Mr. Sandys

I think the hon. Gentleman knows quite well that it is not through heartlessness. I have personally been giving a great deal of time to this whole question. The working out of this scheme of compensation is not nearly so simple as some people seem to think. It has to take into account a whole variety of factors, including loss of service, loss of pension, loss of prospects of promotion and lots of other things. These vary not only from Service to Service, but also from branch to branch. While I fully recognise the importance of announcing the scheme and the terms as quickly as possible, I attach even greater importance to making sure that the scheme, when announced, is fair as between one man and another.

Mr. Brown

While accepting that, and welcoming the fact that the right hon. Gentleman is now getting down to it in real detail and hopes to be able to make an announcement in a few weeks, may I nevertheless point out, without any desire to score a point, that a lot of people who believe that they may be affected feel that he ought to have done some of this consideration before making the announcement, and that no matter in how friendly a manner he puts his remarks now, it is impossible to avoid a great deal of uncertainty in the minds of people at a difficult age in life, which to them seems to amount to heartlessness? Therefore, it is important that "a few weeks" should really mean a few weeks and should not get stretched out to the end of the Session. May I ask another question? I was not quite clear what the right hon. Gentleman meant by the last part of his Answer when he said that it is hoped that some of these men may be given an opportunity voluntarily to retire with appropriate compensation. If the right hon. Gentleman does not know how many or what sort of men are affected, how will he be able to give any of them the chance to go voluntarily?

Mr. Sandys

Perhaps I may deal with the last part of that supplementary first. Obviously it is only when we know how many will be affected and in which branches the redundancy will occur that we can ask for volunteers. I have said We are examining how far it is possible…to give individuals within the categories concerned…

Mr. Brown

Men who are going anyway?

Mr. Sandys

In the categories where redundancies occur.

On the earlier point, I do not think that when the right hon. Gentleman considers it he will regard it as a fair criticism to say that they ought to work all this out before announcing the general outline of policy in the White Paper. It would be quite impossible to work out a scheme of this kind as it is proving now, without getting a mass of detailed information from all the branches of the Services affected, including obtaining information from overseas commands. We could not have done that without the whole thing leaking out completely, and then we should have had to make the announcement about policy piecemeal. I think it was inevitable that we had to announce the broad policy without telling people all through the Services all over the world, and then work out a detailed scheme of compensation afterwards. I think that was inevitable.

Mr. Beresford Craddock

When my right hon. Friend is considering these plans will he be good enough to take into account also civilian employees in R.E.M.E. depots, for example? These are also very important when considering redundancy and our defence programme.

Mr. Sandys

What I am concerned with now is a scheme of compensation for Regular officers and N.C.O.s. As I said earlier, I do not think that those who are in civilian employment will in most cases have very much difficulty, in the present state of the demand for labour, in finding alternative employment.