HC Deb 11 July 1957 vol 573 cc575-83
Lards Amendment: In page 29, line 46, after the Amendment last inserted, insert new Clause D:
"(1) Where an application has been made to the Minister for his consent or authorisation under paragraph (b) of section ten of the Schedule of 1899, or for his consent under section two of the Electric Lighting Act, 1909, and the local planning authority after giving public notice, considering any objection that may be made and consulting with the local authorities, the Council for the Preservation of Rural England and other appropriate national and local bodies, have notified the Minister that there are objections by the planning authority or by persons aggrieved by the application or by the local authorities or bodies consulted and that those objections have not been withdrawn, the Minister (either in addition to, or in lieu of, any other hearing or opportunity of stating objections) shall cause a public inquiry to be held, and, before determining whether to give his consent or authorisation, shall consider the objection and the report of the person who held the inquiry:
Provided that this subsection shall not apply where the Minister proposes to accede to the application subject to such modifications or conditions as will give effect to the objection of the local planning authority.
(2) Where in accordance with the preceding subsection a public inquiry is to be held in respect of an application by an Electricity Board, the Minister shall inform the Board accordingly; and the Board shall in two successive weeks publish a notice stating—
a) the fact that the application has been made, and the purpose thereof, together with a description of the land to which it relates;
(b) a place in the locality where a copy of the application, and of the map referred to therein, can be inspected; and
(c) the place, date and time of the public inquiry.
(3) A notice under the last preceding subsection shall be published in one or more local newspapers circulating in the locality in which the land in question is situated, or circulating respectively in the several localities in which different parts of that land are situated, as the Board publishing the notice may consider appropriate.
(4) If it appears to the Minister that, in addition to the publication of a notice in accordance with subsections (2) and (3) of this section, further notification of the public inquiry should be given (either by the service of notices, or by advertisement, or in any other way) in order to secure that the information specified in paragraphs (a) to (c) of subsection (2) of this section is sufficiently made known to persons in the locality, the Minister may direct the Board to take such further steps for that purpose as may be specified in the direction.
(5) Where in accordance with this section a public inquiry is to be held in respect of an application for the consent or authorisation of the Minister under paragraph (b) of section ten of the Schedule of 1899, and (whether in pursuance of subsection (2) of section (Further provisions as to placing of electric lines) of this Act or otherwise) the Minister is proceeding concurrently as mentioned in subsection (1) of section forty-four of the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1926, the public inquiry shall extend to all the matters arising in those concurrent proceedings, and any notice of the inquiry (in addition to any other matters required to be stated therein) shall indicate the extent of the inquiry accordingly.
(6) In the case of an application for the consent or authorisation of the Minister under paragraph (b) of the said section ten, where the application relates to land in the areas of two or more local planning authorities.—
(a) in so far as any of those local planning authorities do not object to the application, no public inquiry need (unless the Minister otherwise directs) be held in respect of the application in so far as it relates to land in the area of that local planning authority;

Read a Second time.

Mr. Maudling

I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, in subsection (1), line 5, to leave out from the beginning to "not" in line 11, and to insert: have notified the Minister that they object to the application, and that objection of the local planning authority has". I think it would be for the convenience of the House if all the Amendments to the proposed Lords Amendments were taken together. That would include the proposed new Second Schedule, which is described as a "consequential Amendment to the Bill".

This matter is a little complicated. I will try to explain it, in the hope that I shall explain it also to myself in the process. The proposed Lords Amendment arises from an undertaking given by my noble Friend that where the local planning authority maintained an objection either to the building or the extension of a power station, or to the provision of an overhead line, my noble Friend would cause a public inquiry to be held. That is the principal purpose of the proposed new Clause D. It is backed by a series of subsidiary provisions which are concerned with the notice that shall be given, where notices shall be placed, further publicity, if the Minister should re quire it, and machinery designed to carry out the primary purpose.

4.45 p.m.

I believe it was also felt that local planning authorities, excellent as they are, are primarily local and therefore have a limited purview of these matters. It was put to us that there might he objections on planning grounds to power stations or transmission lines which would not necessarily come within the field of operation of planning authorities and that provision should therefore be made for the consideration of objections, not only from the local planning authority, but from any other body, for example, the Council for the Preservation of Rural England. In those circumstances, a public inquiry should be held at the instance of the Minister. As the result, the proposed new Clause D now provides for a public inquiry not only if the local planning authority should object, but if that authority should inform the Minister that other persons are aggrieved by the application. The effect would be that if any two people objected to any particular application the Minister would be bound to hold a public inquiry.

There are a number of reasons why the Government do not feel that the proposed new Clause is acceptable. The Minister has to deal with about 9,000 or 10,000 applications for overhead lines annually, and if we had to have a public inquiry any time two people objected to one of these applications, the effect on the power programme would be insupportable.

The effect of the Amendment which I have moved to the proposed Lords Amendment would be that where application has been made to the Minister, and the local planning authority has informed the Minister that it objects to the application and its objection has not been withdrawn, the Minister shall hold a public inquiry. Subsection (1) would say that where the local planning authority objects, there shall be a public inquiry. This is in accordance with the undertaking given by my noble Friend. I hope that that proposal will commend itself to the House. If the planning authority maintained an objection, there would be a very strong case for a public inquiry.

We then endeavour to meet the further point, that the local planning authority may not be the only people with a reasonable objection and that the Minister should be able and obliged to listen to objections from other quarters. The purpose of subsection (2) as amended would roughly be that, in the case of high voltage lines, which are to be defined as lines for conveying electricity at or above 132,000 volts, if anyone other than the local planning authority has an objection to make he will send the objection to the local planning authority and simultaneously to the Minister. Then the Minister will have the whole picture of the objections to the line and will be able, if he thinks it right, to hold a public inquiry in regard to objections from sources other than the local planning authority.

This has happened in other cases, one of which was the Bradwell Power Station. No objection was raised locally, but the Minister thought it right to have a public inquiry because of the importance of the project. If the local planning authority says that there are other substantial objectors, like the Council for the Preservation of Rural England, the Minister will have discretion to order a public inquiry. He will not be compelled to do so unless he thinks that the substance of the objections is such as to make that the right course to pursue.

This is a very tangled problem, and the Amendments which I am proposing to the Amendment from another place are, I regret to say, complicated, but I have endeavoured to explain to the House the main purpose. I think that what underlies the whole provision is the feeling that, first of all, if the local planning authority objects, there should be a public inquiry; secondly, we cannot assume that because the local planning authority has no objection, there are no other objections from other sources which are worthy of a public inquiry; and that, in the case of objections other than from the local planning authority, it must be for the Minister—it cannot be for anyone else—to decide in his discretion whether these other objections should be dealt with by private hearing or whether they are adequate to merit the full machinery of a public inquiry on the lines set out in the subsequent subsections of the new Clause.

I hope very much that our Amendments will commend themselves to the House. I think the point raised in another place is a valid one, and represents a feeling which is fairly widespread but, as I explained earlier, I also feel very strongly that we must not do anything which will, in fact, impede or hold up the expansion of the electricity supply industry. I think that by our proposed Amendments to the new Clause we have, with some difficulty and with some ingenuity on the part of the Parliamentary draftsmen, succeeded in obtaining the best of both worlds.

Mr. C. R. Hobson

I think this is a step in the right direction, because the original Amendment would have been thoroughly impracticable. I am no lawyer, but it seems to me that it would have meant having to consult the Society for the Preservation of Rural England before erecting a power station in Scotland, and I do not know what the Secretary of State for Scotland would think about that. The whole thing would have been thoroughly impracticable, and would have impeded the programme.

I should like to ask one question. Why has it been found necessary, according to the right hon. Gentleman's statement, to have a datum line for high voltage lines of 132,000 volts?

Mr. Maudling

The answer is that we felt that it was quite impossible to apply this procedure to every application for an overhead line. The thing that causes most controversy and discontent to people is the large overhead lines carried on big pylons, and the datum line of 132,000 volts is intended to include the big pylons, hut to exclude the normal overhead distribution lines.

Sir F. Soskice

I think the Minister has found what is a reasonable compromise in order to allay a number of conflicting anxieties. The Clause started out with a provision that there should be an inquiry when there was an objection by the planning authority. When that was examined, it was thought that possibly the planning authority might take too narrow and sectarian a view in some sets of circumstances.

That quite naturally gave rise to the suggestion that the Clause should be considerably enlarged and that the Minister should be required to hold an inquiry in the event of objections from other sources which, it was thought, might take a more general view of the circumstances. But, as the right hon. Gentleman has pointed out, the Clause in the form in which it left another place would have put very serious obstacles in the way of the direct implementation of large-scale schemes. It was under these circumstances that the right hon. Gentleman and his advisers set to work to try to find a middle way between these opposing points of view.

The course which he has adopted in order to achieve that objective seems to us on this side of the House to be wholly reasonable. What he has said, in effect, is that there must be an inquiry when there is an objection by a planning authority, and that there should be an inquiry when an objection is voiced from other quarters. At any rate, in the case of these very high voltage cables, it seems to us that, faced with that difficult situation, and trying to meet the point of view of those who wished objections to be fully aired and fully considered and those who felt more strongly the practical need for pressing on with urgent programmes, that the right hon. Gentleman has found a sensible middle way and a reasonable compromise, which I hope, when it is considered, will seem to be satisfactory to all those who have felt very much concern in this matter.

Speaking for myself, I would certainly hope that the House would agree with the Paymaster-General in the changes which he proposes, which certainly seem to me to meet the situation, and I therefore hope 'hat the House will agree to them.

Amendment to the Lords Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments to the Lords Amendment made: In subsection (1), at end insert: (2) In relation to applications for consent under section two of the Electric Lighting Act. 1909, and to applications for consent or authorisation under paragraph (b) of section ten of the Schedule of 1899 in respect of the placing of high voltage lines, the Minister shall make provision by regulations for securing—

  1. (a) that (in addition to any notice required to be given under section two of the said Act of 1909) notice of every such application shall be published in such manner as may he specified in the regulations;
  2. (b) that (in addition to any notice required to be given under the said section two, and to the publication of notices in accordance with the preceding paragraph) notice of any such application shall, where the Minister so directs, be served upon much persons as may he specified in the directions;
  3. (c) that every notice published or served in pursuance of the regulations shall state the time within which, and the manner in which, objections to the application can be made by persons other than those to whom (under the said section two, or under section twenty-one of the Electricity (Supply) Act. 1919) an opportunity of being heard or of stating objections is required to be given, and that the time so stated shall not be less than such minimum period as may be specified in the regulations; and
  4. (d) that, in so far as any such notice requires objections to be sent to any person other than the Minister, copies of the objections shall be sent to the Minister by that person:
Provided that, in relation to applications for consent tinder the said section two to the extension of generating stations, any regulations made under this subsection may include provision for enabling the Minister to give directions dispensing with the requirements of the regulations, in cases where in accordance with that section the Minister dispenses with the giving of notices thereunder. (3) Where, in the case of any such application as is mentioned in the last preceding subsection,—
  1. (a) the Minister is not required by virtue of subscetion (1) of this section to cause a public inquiry to be held, but
  2. (b) objections or copies of objections have been sent to the Minister in pursuance of regulations made under the last preceding subsection,
the Minister shall consider those objections, together with all other material considerations, with a view to determining whether a public inquiry should be held with respect to the application, and, if he thinks it appropriate to do so, shall cause a public inquiry to be held, either in addition to, or in lieu of, any other hearing or opportunity of stating objections to the application. In subsection (2), line 1, leave out "the preceding subsection" and insert: any of the preceding provisions of this section". Leave out subsections (6) and (7), and insert: (6) The provisions of the Schedule (Supplementary provisions as to public inquiries) to this Act shall have effect for the purposes of this section. Subsection (8), line 6, after "(1)" insert "or subsection (3)".

Subsection (8), at end add: (9) In this section "high voltage line" means an electric line for conveying or transmitting electricity at or above a voltage of one hundred and thirty-two thousand.—[Mr. Maudling.]

Question, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment, as amended, put and agreed to

Consequential Amendment made to the Bill: In page 38, line 44, at the end insert the following Schedule: