Sir Hugh Lane Bequest (Hansard, 2 July 1957)

§ 26. Mr. Hector Hughes
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury if he has considered the report of the committee set up by the British Government in the year 1924 to consider certain questions relating to the 39 pictures bequeathed under the will and codicil of the late Sir Hugh Lane; if he is aware that the committee found, as a fact, that Sir Hugh Lane, in signing the codicil of 3rd February, 1915, thought he was making a legal disposition; that the expressed intention of that legal disposition was that the 39 pictures should go to the Dublin Art Gallery; and if he will take steps to implement that intention by sending the 39 pictures back to Dublin.

§ The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. J. Enoch Powell)
I would refer the hon. and learned Gentleman to my predecessor's reply to the debate on an Amendment to the National Gallery and Tate Gallery Bill on 5th November, 1954.

§ Mr. Hughes
Does the hon. Gentleman realise that this finding of fact dishonours the testator and dishonours the Government, because they refuse to implement his intention, and that it is an act of unscrupulous dishonesty on the part of the Government—

§ Mr. Nabarro
On a point of order. This last supplementary question contained the words "dishonourable" as applicable to members of the present Administration and "dishonesty". Are not those words completely out of order, Mr. Speaker?

§ Mr. Speaker
They are very undesirable, but it has always been the rule in this House that one can apply abusive words to the Government or to the party opposite to an extent which would not for one moment be permitted if directed to any particular Minister or hon. Member. It is, however, quite undesirable that such language should be used in a supplementary question.

§ Mr. Hughes
I used the words "unscrupulous dishonesty" as applicable to the Government and as a statement of fact and not as terms of abuse.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. and learned Member does not seem to be improving the situation in any way. I would remind him that, quite apart from the use of language in debate, there are particular rules regarding the language that can be used in Questions. The purpose of Questions is not to abuse the other side but to try to extract information. I would hold such language to be out of order in a Question.

§ Mr. Hughes
In my submission, Mr. Speaker, I am not abusing, I am making a statement of fact, and the two words I used are, I suggest, Parliamentary language. They are statements of fact. The Government, in refusing to implement—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. and learned Member might be able to say all that in a debate, but it is out of order in a Question and he should not do it. What I said about the wide spread of the hon. and learned Member's accusation related to many Governments besides the present one, and there is nobody, therefore, to whom I can ask him to apologise, but he should not use that language in a Question.

§ Mr. Hughes
In deference to what you have said, Mr. Speaker, may I continue my supplementary question and leave out the words to which you object? Is the Minister aware that in refusing to implement the expressed intention of the testator, as found by a committee of this House, the Government are thereby—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. That is all debate; it is not a question.

§ Mr. Hughes
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I was in the middle of my supplementary question when I was interrupted by the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) and did not complete my sentence. I am willing to leave out the words to which you object.

§ Mr. Speaker
I heard the hon. and learned Member's supplementary question, and I have told him that that is all a matter of debate. It is not a matter for question.

§ Mr. Hughes
May I put—

§ Mr. Speaker
No. The hon. Member ought to bring it up on some suitable occasion when he has freedom of debate and not when he is restricted by the rules of Question Time.

§ Mr. Hughes
May I put my supplementary question?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I have listened to the hon. Member—

§ Mr. Hughes
Why rule out a supplementary—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order.

§ Mr. Hughes
Mr. Speaker, I do appeal to you. May I say, with the greatest respect, that it is very hard to refuse me leave to put a supplementary question. I have not completed my supplementary question.

§ Mr. Speaker
I called the hon. and learned Member to put a supplementary question, but he abused the opportunity.

§ Mr. Hughes
Will you now allow me, Mr. Speaker—

§ Mr. Speaker
No. Mr. James Harrison.