§ 10. Mr. Shinwellasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he has considered the petitions containing the signatures of several thousand electors in the Parliamentary division of Easington asking for an increase in the basic old-age pension and directing his attention to the plight of many old people who are compelled to rely on their pension 670 and a small amount from the National Assistance Board; and whether he will now make a statement of the Government's intentions.
§ 12. Dame Irene Wardasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance when, in view of the increase in the price of coal and increased rents, he proposes to add to old-age pensions.
§ 13. Captain Pilkingtonasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he can yet make a statement on the Government's plans for improving the position of old-age pensioners.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterI cannot add to my previous statements on this subject. In reply to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) I would add that I have, of course, taken note of the petition forms which he was good enough to send me.
§ Mr. ShinwellWill not the Minister agree that the conditions of many old-age pensioners in my constituency—and, indeed, throughout the country—have become very grave; that they find it very difficult to sustain a decent standard of living? In view of the fact that the National Assistance Board is occasionally somewhat harsh about payment of allowances in very suitable cases, would he not give some consideration to increasing the basic pension? Or are we to understand from his Answer that the Government do not intend to do anything at all about it in this or the next Session? Is that the position?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterWith regard to the last part of the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary, I have answered the Questions on the Order paper. I certainly would not accept his general reflections on the Assistance Board, though, naturally, I would be prepared to ask it to consider any particular case in which the right hon. Gentleman felt that a wrong decision had been given. As regards the general issue, the right hon. Gentleman will be aware that though the position of all people whose incomes are fixed is, in these days, not without difficulty, the real value of the pension still remains higher by far than it has been for the greater part of the lifetime of the National Insurance scheme as a whole.
§ Dame Irene WardOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it usual in this House, 671 when a specific question is asked about a specific constituency and a specific petition, for the Minister to answer general questions on the subject? I do not think that it is in accordance with the tradition of the House, and I do not like it at all.
§ Mr. SpeakerI am afraid that the hon. Lady's likes and dislikes are not a point of order. It seemed to me that the Answer given by the Minister did include the matters contained in the hon. Lady's Question. Does she wish to ask a supplementary question?
§ Dame Irene WardYes, Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a supplementary question, but first, further to my point of order, may I ask what protection hon. Members have, because Ministers might block every Question and get fewer supplementaries if they answered a lot of Questions together?
§ Mr. SpeakerI have just called on the hon. Lady to ask a supplementary question, which shows that her complaints are unfounded.
§ Mr. ShinwellFurther to the remarks of the hon. Lady, I understood her to raise a point of order—
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Lady said she was raising a point of order, but it turned out not to be one.
§ Dame Irene WardWill my right hon. Friend bear in mind that juggling about with figures and arguing the merits of the Opposition's policy and ours—and I think our policy is far better—[Interruption.] Would he kindly bear in mind for a future occasion that the thrifty old-age pensioners and those on small fixed incomes are much worse off relative to the rest of the people in the country? Having regard to the increase in the price of coal, and to the increase in rents, which must have affected the position of these people, when are we to have some action?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterAs to the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I think that if she will study my supplementary answer to the right hon. Gentleman opposite she will see that I have a good deal of sympathy with much that she has said. With regard to her particular point of objection, if she will study the Question of the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell)—
§ Dame Irene WardI do not want to.
§ Mr. Boyd-Carpenter—however repugnant she finds that exercise—she will see that, in fact, he raised the same general issue as she herself did, and it therefore seemed to me to be not discourteous, as the Answer to both must be identical, to save the time of the House by giving it in one.
§ Captain PilkingtonIs my right hon. Friend aware that it would be a good thing if he could say that he at least hoped to be in a position to say something about the subject some time this year, more particularly in view of the recent rumours there have been about Parliamentary salaries?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterI certainly cannot add to the Answer I have given this afternoon.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs the Minister aware that if the hon. Lady the Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward) studied what I said she would seem to be much more intelligent than she really is?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterI think that a mixture, an amalgamation, of the views of the right hon. Gentleman and of my hon. Friend would be highly stimulating.
§ Mr. MarquandDoes the right hon. Gentleman recollect that in the debate of 25th February he said that he intended to study this question very carefully? Have his studies revealed to him that the cost of living has risen again since then, and that the cost of coal is likely to go up very shortly? How much more increase must there be before he makes a statement?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterIf the right hon. Gentleman will himself give study similar to that which he has recommended to me, he will see that the Index of Retail Prices has moved one-fifth of one point since the time of that debate.
14. Mrs. Jegerasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what is the amount of family allowance and retirement pension payable to a pensioner with two children at school under 16 years of age.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterIf the pensioner is a married man whose wife is not entitled to retirement pension on her own insurance, and who has himself earned no increments, 88s. a week. A widow, 673 so long as she has young children dependent on her, receives widowed mother's allowance instead of retirement pension. In the case put by the hon. Lady the amount is 73s. a week.
Mrs. JegerCan the Minister say when the question of the children's allowance for old-age pensioners was last looked into? Am I right in concluding that it comes to about 3s. 6d. a week? Would he not give some consideration to the possibility of raising the £2 earnings limit for pensioners who are trying to keep a young family?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterThe hon. Lady will be aware that we raised the earnings limit for retirement pensioners to 50s., with a 6d. in the shilling provision on the next £, as recently as last summer. As for the increase made in respect of the children of retirement pensioners, I am glad to say that the hon. Lady has under-estimated the figure which, in point of fact, is not 3s. 6d., as she suggested, but 11s. 6d. for the first child and 3s. 6d. for each of the subsequent children, with family allowances added. As for the improvement in the payment for children of widowed mothers, that increase was also made last year and the rate she gets is now very nearly up to double the 1948 level.
§ Mr. MarquandWill the right hon. Member tell the House whether the figures he has quoted are below the National Assistance scale and whether it does not mean that a pensioner in this predicament will have to apply to the National Assistance Board?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterRather than answer a question like that off the cuff, I should, if the right hon. Gentleman does not mind, prefer to see it on the Order Paper.