§ 44. Mr. Emrys Hughesasked the Secretary of State for Scotland what proposals he has for introducing legislation to restrict the payment of subsidies in Scotland to those whose relevant needs are established.
§ Mr. MaclayNone, Sir.
§ Mr. Emrys HughesDoes the right hon. Gentleman approve the recent speech made in my constituency by the Minister of State in which he said that to pay subsidies to people who should not have them was not only wrong but immoral? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is widespread immorality of this kind in Scotland, and does he countenance and condone immorality?
§ Mr. MaclayThe hon. Member should read the extract of the report of my noble Friend's speech more carefully. He has completely misrepresented what my noble Friend said. What he said was that it was wrong that anyone should be forced to subsidise any person if that person could afford to pay for himself. He did not say that housing subsidies as such are wrong or immoral. What is more, he went on to say what has never been mentioned by the hon. Member, that a family needing a house should be housed according to its need and pay rent in accordance with its means.
§ Mr. T. FraserAs the right hon. Gentleman himself told us in this House, when commending to the House financial provision for housing, that subsidies should be given only to those who need them, may I ask him when he proposes to take his own advice and provide subsidies only for those who need them?
§ Mr. MaclayI am afraid I do not completely follow the question. The answer is simply the one I have given. As an expression of view the Government have always said that with a rebate scheme we can get over the problem of need every time.
§ Mr. FraserIf the right hon. Gentleman does not understand what I mean, may I make the position quite clear? The right hon. Gentleman has introduced many subsidies, including agricultural subsidies, and quite recently he provided that an owner of agricultural land could have a subsidy for building a pigsty whether he needed the subsidy or not. What I was asking was when he would take his own advice about subsidies.
§ Mr. MaclayThe principle involved in housing subsidies is obviously completely different from the principle involved in other subsidies.
§ Mr. Emrys HughesIn view of the grossly unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter again on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.