HC Deb 04 December 1957 vol 579 cc381-5

The following Questions stood upon the Order Paper:

46. Commander PURSEY

To ask the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how much of the £724,000 provided for the 12 Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve divisions, in this year's Navy Estimates, has been allocated to the Hull Division: what reduction is forecast for next year and what are the present number of active service or pensioner officers and ratings on the instructional staff, stating substantive ranks and ratings.

47. Commander PURSEY

To ask the parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what is the strength of true volunteer Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve ratings for the Hull Division for 1957–58; what are the branches and numbers of ratings which are at present under strength; and what steps his department intend to take to organise a recruiting campaign to interest the Hull Corporation and other official bodies and obtain the necessary volunteers who have not so far volunteered.

48. Commander PURSEY

To ask the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what steps the Admiralty intend to take to inquire into the cause of the recent false Press leak that the Hull Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve base was to be closed down, and to allay the anxiety of the Hull Corporation and other official bodies connected with shipping and commerce there.

51. Major WALL

To ask the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what is the yearly cost of maintaining H.M.S. "Galatea", the Humber Division, Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve.

The Parliamentary and Financial Secretary to the Admiralty (Mr. Christopher Soames)

I will, with permission, Mr. Speaker, answer Questions Nos. 46, 47, 48 and 51 together.

There has been a review of the Naval Volunteer Reserves to fit them for our new mobilisation plans. My noble Friend has decided to form a single unified reserve, which will be called the Royal Naval Reserve. This combination of the existing Royal Naval Reserve and the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve with their separate traditions and experience will give added strength to the Navy's volunteer reservists and make them all one company, with one aim. It will also enable the fullest use to be made of the training facilities and of the sea experience available in both these Reserves.

Reservists will hereafter be trained more thoroughly, but in rather more limited fields to enable them to take up alloted tasks immediately on mobilisation. This involves the reduction of facilities in all divisions, the most serious of which is at Hull, where the Sea Training Centre will be reduced to a centre for training communications ratings. The Admiralty have reached this particular decision with very real regret and wish to record their recognition of the services rendered by the personnel of the Humber Division.

All officers and men of the divisions, including Humber, will be invited to join the new Reserve. The training of ratings will, in general, involve attendance at the Sea Training Centres on week nights as well as periods of continuous training at sea; ratings who cannot carry out the new training obligations can still transfer to the new Reserve, but will not normally be required for training.

This unified reserve will continue to offer wide opportunities for sea training, with the knowledge that such training will constitute a real support for the Royal Navy in serious emergency.

Mr. Shinwell

May I ask the hon. Gentleman what is to be the cost of this new unified Royal Naval Reserve and whether this step indicates any substantial reduction in our defence expenditure?

Mr. Soames

Yes, Sir, a considerable economy will be involved in this. Once this is all through, there will be a saving of about one-third of the total cost of the Reserves.

Mr. Shinwell

What is that?

Mr. Soames

It will be reduced from about £1,800,000 to about £1,200,000, but the object is not primarily one of economy. It is an endeavour to streamline the Reserves and, for the first time, to tailor them to our mobilisation requirements and to endeavour to give men specific training so that when a man is trained he will have a specific and allotted task to do in the event of emergency.

Major Wall

While accepting the advantages of amalgamating the Reserves, may I ask my hon. Friend whether the R.M.F.V.R. will be affected? As regards the closing of the Sea Training Centre at Hull, can my hon. Friend say where officers and men of the R.N.V.R. from Hull will do their sea training if they go on to the Reserve?

Mr. Soames

This does not affect the Marine Forces Volunteer Reserve.

In reply to my hon. and gallant Friend's second question, I cannot say exactly where they will do their sea training yet, but those officers who come forward and offer their services, and are prepared to give the time necessary to fulfil the training which we would wish to give them, will be offered sea time in some other division.

Mr. Steele

We shall, of course, want a little time to examine this statement. In the meantime, could the Parliamentary Secretary give the House an assurance that the Admiralty will be able to call on these men should mobilisation or an emergency take place? Will it have the knowledge necessary to get them quickly?

Secondly, would not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that we are getting these statements in a rather piecemeal fashion? We had a statement on Thursday about Hong Kong and a statement yesterday from the Colonial Secretary about Malta. Is it not time that the Parliamentary Secretary gave us a comprehensive statement as to what the position is to be?

Mr. Soames

This unification of the Reserve will certainly be a help in the object that the hon. Member has in mind.

As to the timing of these various announcements, the hon. Member will appreciate that the defence forces are being reorganised and that the reorganisation is planned to be spread over some five years. I think that the House would far sooner have the advantage of information and statements on decisions that are taken as time goes on rather than wait for one comprehensive statement, which would be a very considerable statement, at the end of each year.

Mr. G. Jeger

Will the hon. Gentleman accept the thanks of the Humber generally that its link with the Royal Navy is not being broken? Can he assure us, however, that he will be getting enough volunteers from the Humber and its district under the new organisation when those volunteers are to be only ratings and not officers?

Mr. Soames

The Navy sends its good wishes to the Humber and is glad that the association is to continue. We are certain there will be the number of men forthcoming to do the training we require.

Commander Maitland

By abolishing the Humber Division, is not the Admiralty losing in the Midlands a very large catchment area of men who, perhaps, would wish to volunteer for the Navy in wartime? Where are they going? How will they go to their new bases and where will those bases be?

Mr. Soames

Part of the difficulty is that, geographically, Hull is so situated that it has only a comparatively small area on which to draw for the number of men capable of giving the time required for this training. Coupled with that is the fact that the fishing fleet and the Merchant Navy have a considerable call on those men who wish to be associated with the sea and it has been difficult in Hull to get the numbers of men required to devote the necessary time to the kind of training required for this work. Those who choose to remain within the new Royal Naval Reserve will be given opportunities for sea training.

Mr. Paget

Can the Minister tell us a little more about how we are to train as one unit ex-members of the R.N. Reserve, who are merchant seamen living generally at sea, and of the R.N.V. Reserve, who are landsmen living on land? Offhand, it seems a little difficult to understand how we are to bring these two together in single training.

Mr. Soames

I appreciate the hon. and learned Gentleman's point, but it is considered that the R.N.V.R. will gain very considerable benefit from the sea experience available within the R.N.R.

Mr. Shinwell

Provided that training facilities are available—and that is very important—will the hon. Gentleman consider, in conjunction with his right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence, and other Ministers, whether, instead of calling up men for National Service with the Navy—which does not call up a great many, in any case—it is possible to provide them with the alternative of joining this new and potentially efficient Royal Naval Reserve?

Mr. Soames

I think the right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that that goes somewhat wide of the Questions on the Order Paper, but I am sure tint my right hon. Friend has taken note of the suggestion.

Mr. G. Brown

Referring to the second part of the supplementary question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Dunbartonshire, West (Mr. Steele), mail ask whether the hon. Gentleman does not agree that it would be easier to assimilate and understand these piecemeal announcements if we had a comprehensive statement on naval policy, since the White Paper says that the future rôle of the Navy is uncertain? Until the Government tell us in which direction the uncertainty has been reviewed, these piecemeal announcements look more and more like minor pieces of economy.

Mr. Soarnes

The right hon. Gentleman knows, I think, that the White Paper did not say that the future rôle of the Navy was uncertain. It said that the future of the Navy in global war was uncertain, but almost everything is uncertain in global war, because no one knows quite what global war would be like.