HC Deb 29 October 1956 vol 558 cc1207-10

At the end of section twenty of the principal Act (which lays down requirements as to premises of educational establishments) there shall be inserted the following subsection :— (4) With a view to securing that the premises, furnishing and equipment of schools are maintained in such a condition as to contribute to the safety of the pupils, it shall be the duty of the education authority to cause their appropriate officers as part of their ordinary work from time to time to inspect and to report to them on the said premises, furnishing and equipment having special regard to any structural defects or damage or decay such as to cause risk of injury to the pupils, and where any danger to the physical safety of the pupils is reported the education authority shall take immediate action to end it".—[Mr. Hannan.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Mr. Hannan

I beg to move, That the Clause be read a Second time.

The Deputy-Chairman

The following new Clause relating to health matters may be discussed at the same time

Mr. Hannan

Thank you, Sir Rhys. The same principle is involved in each case.

11.0 p.m.

The purpose of the proposed new Clauses is to elicit some information from the Government as to whose responsibility it is to carry out repairs and alterations and emergency health measures. The new Clauses are designed to strengthen the provisions of the Act. By subsection (3), the only duty at present placed on the local authority is : it shall be the duty of an education authority to cause their medical officers as part of their ordinary work from time to time to inspect and to report to them upon the said premises, furnishing and equipment, and in making the said inspections the medical officers shall have special regard to the lighting, heating and ventilation, and to the sanitary arrangements Merely to ask the inspector to report on these conditions is, in our view, not sufficient. We think it should be expressly stated what action is to be taken and by whom.

A case has occurred recently in my constituency of Maryhill, where there is a school with appalling conditions of sanitation. These are known to the local authority, but the correspondence which has ensued between the local authority and the Department is of such a character that time is passing while the conditions continue to deteriorate and while the children run great risks of infection and suffer deteriorating health standards.

I raised this matter in the debate on the Estimates of the Department of Health, and the Joint Under-Secretary dealing with the matter sent me a reply. My hon. Friend the Member for Fife, West (Mr. Hamilton) had made the point that lack of proper sanitation in schools was responsible for deteriorating standards of health. I followed him in the debate and stated that my information was that in some instances in Glasgow dysentery has been caused by the evil sanitation conditions.

I have been informed by the Joint Under-Secretary, in respect of this school at Maryhill, that work costing £5,000 or more cannot be carried out without permission. The difficulty is to pinpoint responsibility and to know how far the local authority can go ahead to deal with these matters and when it must seek Ministry sanction. If the Joint Under-Secretary can help to clear these matters up we shall be grateful. That is part of the purpose of tabling the new Clauses.

In the school health service report of Glasgow, the Chief Officer states that there were 144 school visits, that in 27 cases there was nothing to report and that in 60 of the remaining cases—over 50 per cent.—there were defects in w.c.s and other lavatories. I will not go through the report—I am anxious to save time—but that alone should be sufficient to make the Government pay serious attention to the conditions of sanitation in schools. These Clauses have been tabled so that we may see what the position is and how far powers extend to local authorities to proceed in these matters in order to rectify the defects.

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

The hon. Member for Maryhill (Mr. Hannan) has raised one or two matters of considerable importance. He referred to the duty of the medical officer to inspect, particularly ventilation, lighting, heating, etc., and to report. What the hon. Member wanted to know was the responsibility of the local authority. The overriding responsibility, quite apart from any Statute, is the common law responsibility to keep premises safe, so far as the health and physical condition of the children there are concerned. The local authorities have that common law responsibility, which on the whole I think they carry out well.

In addition to that the Secretary of State and the Department of Education, in circulars which they have issued in recent years, have drawn particular attention to the matters with which the hon. Member is most concerned. There are the minimum standards for school building which were laid down in Circular 268 of 1953, and there the provision of lavatories, cloakrooms and the like is laid down in specific terms.

Of course, that does not apply to the older chools, but in Circular 296 of 4th December, 1954, the question of the older and unsatisfactory schools was again dealt with, and the points with which the hon. Member is particularly concerned were particularly referred to. It states that so far as practicable education authorities should aim at bringing all schools which are not to be replaced in the foreseeable future up to the standards of acommodation laid down for new schools in Circular 268. That is the one I referred to just now.

While recognising that they could not do everything to bring buildings up to date in view of the building programmes, the Secretary of State asked education authorities to give special consideration to proposals for providing where necessary better and more adequate staff accommodation and more modern and sufficient cloakrooms and lavatories for pupils. These matters have been very forcibly brought to the notice of the education authorities.

Mr. Woodburn

I have another new Clause down relating to this subject and Section 3 of the principal Act, and to save the necessity of my moving it, would the hon. and learned Gentleman tell me whether what he has said applies to washing and drying facilities?

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

Yes, it covers washing. The scale of washbasins is laid down in Circular 268.

Mr. Woodburn

And towels?

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

Not towels. It deals only with physical structure.

As for drying facilities, although there is no specific mention of them, there is provision about the spacing of pegs in cloakrooms which, indirectly, affects that matter ; but it is not dealt with specifically, although I think that the Secretary of State would have power to do so by further circular if it became necessary.

As to the question of who can start and when, the position is that the limit is, as the hon. Member thought, £5,000. If the cost of the improvements does not exceed £5,000, then the education authority can go ahead. If the cost is over £5,000, then they are subject to approval, and the policy is to grant approval where the accommodation, the cloakroom accommodation and the like, is clearly inadequate. In a bad case, or in even a reasonably bad case—if a case can be "reasonably bad"—approval will be granted, even though the amount involved is over £5,000.

I have no knowledge of the improvements at the school to which the hon. Member particularly referred, but I am sure the Joint Under-Secretary of State will look into that, and get into touch with the hon. Member. The duties are there already, and for that reason I think that the new Clauses are unnecessary.

Mr. Hannan

The discussion has cleared up one or two points and I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Motion.

Motion and Clause, by leave, withdrawn.