HC Deb 28 November 1956 vol 561 cc535-8
Mr. Anthony Greenwood

I beg to move, That the Chairman do report Progress and ask leave to sit again.

I do so in order that we may learn the Government's intentions about the rest of this sitting. We have had a good debate and the temper of the Committee has steadily improved as the day has gone on. From our point of view we have made reasonably good progress with the Bill. Very soon we shall be at the end of Part I and shall be starting upon the really controversial part of the Bill. I should have liked to suggest to the Government that it might be convenient if we brought our discussion to a fairly early conclusion tonight so that next week we can face the more contentious part of the Bill with a fresh if not with an open mind.

Major Lloyd-George

I think it would meet the wishes of the Committee if we could complete our consideration of Part I tonight, which means Clause 4. There are no Amendments down to Clause 4.

Mr. Greenwood

I am most grateful to the right hon. and gallant Gentleman. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Motion.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Clause stand part of the Bill.

Sir F. Soskice

My hon. and right hon. Friends welcome the Clause. We think it is another marked step forward in the direction of a more humane approach to the administration of our criminal law, and we are all very glad to see the Clause in the Bill.

I go a little further, and say that we are glad also that in framing the Clause the Government have thought fit to go even one step beyond the recommendation in relation to suicide pacts in the Royal Commission's Report. In paragraph 176 of that Report the fear is expressed that if cases of suicide pacts are included in which one of the partners kills the other there might be considerable scope for abuse. The Government have, in my opinion rightly, disregarded that caution. As I read subsection (3) they have included in the Clause cases in which the one partner to the pact kills the other. The recommendation in the Report stops short at pacts in which each of the partners commits suicide himself.

I am very glad to see the Clause in the Bill, and I congratulate the Government on the view that they have taken that the suicide pact should be defined as including a pact in which one of the partners kills the other. We think that humanity requires that the Clause should be enlarged as the Government have enlarged it, and I think I am speaking for all my hon. and right hon. Friends on this side of the Committee in being glad to see it in that form.

10.30 p.m.

Major Lloyd-George

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Member. I do not think I need detain the Committee any longer. I am very glad that the decision of the Government to go beyond the recommendations of the Royal Commission meets with the approval of the right hon. and learned Member and his hon. Friends. I do not think I need say any more; I think we are all agreed on that.

Mr. Paget

May I ask what is contemplated by the last line of subsection (1) which says: or being killed by a third person. That subsection says: It shall be manslaughter, and shall not be murder, for a person acting in pursuance of a suicide pact between him and another to kill the other or be a party to the other killing himself or being killed by a third person. I have been rather stretching my mind wondering what that meant.

The Attorney-General

There might conceivably be a suicide pact involving more than two people.

Mr. M. Stewart

One thing puzzles me. I understand that one can only benefit—if that is the correct word—by this Clause if one has a settled intention of dying. If one's intention of dying were not so firm or successful one would be liable to be charged with murder. Further, if the actual instrument of the suicide pact were shooting that would be capital murder. Does that not give a rather curious result? If the instrument of the suicide pact were shooting one would be in this position: if one had the settled intention of dying one would be allowed to live, and if on the whole one decided one would rather live, one would be put to death.

I think I am right in saying that the situation which results from this Clause makes us all rather regret that instead of this Measure, which has its merits, we are not considering a simple and more comprehensive Measure.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.

To report Progress and ask leave to sit again.—[Major Lloyd-George.]

Committee report Progress; to sit again Tomorrow.