HC Deb 12 November 1956 vol 560 cc549-53
33. Mr. Lewis

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he is aware that since April, 1955, the date when retirement pensions were last adjusted, the purchasing power of these pensions has been reduced by 2s. 6d. per week for a single person and that for the same period the average worker in industry has received an increase of 3s. 6d. per week; and whether he will, therefore, increase the present retirement pension by 6s., 3s. 6d. or 2s. 6d. per week.

35. Mr. T. Brown

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance in view of the continuous lowering of the economic and social standard of life of old-age pensioners and the lower income groups, if he will take the necessary steps to bring about some improvement as speedily as possible.

37. Mr. V. Yates

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if, in view of the hardship at present experienced by old-age pensioners, he will consider improving their financial position before winter sets in.

The Minister of Pensions and National Insurance (Mr. John Boyd-Carpenter)

I would refer the hon. Members to the reply given by my hon. Friend the Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the hon. Member for Sunderland, North (Mr. Willey) on 23rd October.

Mr. Lewis

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I saw that reply but that it is quite unsatisfactory? Is the Minister aware that these figures which are quoted are taken from Ministerial replies and that in consequence of the increases; in rent, milk and bread as well as the adverse economic effects of the Suez policy, old-age pensioners are in dire need? Will not the right hon. Gentleman do something to help them? Hon. Members on both sides of the House would agree to give him any necessary money for which he may apply to the House, because we feel on both sides of the House that a few thousands or even a few millions would be better spent in that way than on a war in Suez?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The hon. Gentleman will not expect me to follow up the last part of the supplementary, but he may recall that the real value of the rate of retirement benefit is higher today than it was in 1948–51.

Mr. T. Brown

Is the House to understand from the right hon. Gentleman's reply that he is abdicating his responsibility for the old folk of this country? Is he not aware of the growing disquiet in the country, not among the old people themselves and not among hon. Members on this side of the House but among the people in Christian organisations who desire that something should be done at once to meet the needs of the old folk?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I am not questioning the very proper concern felt by hon. Members on both sides of the House for the older section of the population. The reply to which I referred the House was perfectly clear, that I had no proposals to bring forward at the moment, and in saying that I am bound to remind the hon. Gentleman, as I reminded his hon. Friend, that the provision for which we are now responsible is, however it may be criticised, better than that for which his Government were responsible.

Mr. Lewis

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the pension is lower than the national average? Is he not aware that workers throughout industry have been having increases consistently? Surely he will agree that old-age pensions should be maintained at a fair level compared with what they used to be? Will not the right hon. Gentleman do something in this matter?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

If the hon. Gentleman will study the Phillips Report he will see that the question of the relativity of the rates of benefit to the rates of wages is only one of the factors which it is recommended should be considered in deciding whether the rates at any particular time are appropriate.

Mr. T. Brown

Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply and the apparent complacency of the Minister, I beg to give notice that I intend to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

34. Mr. Lewis

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he is aware that under the Judges Remuneration Act, 1954, judges salaries were increased by 60 per cent.; and whether he will increase retirement pensions by the same amount.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I doubt the practical value of a comparison between salaries of one occupation and the general level of retirement pensions. But in any event the hon. Member will, no doubt, recall that whereas retirement pensions were increased in 1955 following on an increase in 1952, the increase in judicial salaries to which he refers was the first for 122 years.

Mr. Lewis

But what an increase, and what an increase in pensions! Can the right hon. Gentleman say why judges need a 60 per cent. increase in their pensions while old-age pensioners who receive only a few shillings a week cannot even be given a few more shillings to compensate them for the continuing reduction in the purchasing value of their pensions? Can the right hon. Gentleman say why there should be a 60 per cent. increase in the pensions of a privileged group and nothing for the old-age pensioner?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The hon. Gentleman must face the fact that judicial salaries have remained unchanged from 1832 to 1954. If the hon. Gentleman is questioning the amount of that increase, he must view it against the background of the length of time during which there was no increase.

36. Mr. Isaacs

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance, in view of the hardship suffered by aged people on pension and others in receipt of National Assistance, and of the recent increases in the price of milk and bread and the higher charges for medical prescriptions, what action he proposes to take to give such people relief.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

With regard to retirement pensions, I would refer the right hon. Member to the reply given by my hon. Friend the Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the hon. Member for Sunderland, North (Mr. Willey) on 23rd October. The National Assistance Act, 1948, puts the initial responsibility for alterations in the assistance scale on the National Assistance Board, which is, of course, watching the position. The question of the refund of charges for prescriptions was dealt with by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health on 1st November.

Mr. Isaacs

While I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that full reply, I would ask him whether he or any of his own personal staff has visited these old people in their homes and heard from them of the misery they are suffering as a result of the inadequacy of their budgets. Is it not possible to do something to help them? Statistics can prove one thing and averages another, but all these people are well below the average and a little more help now would be most gratefully received.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

If I may say so, I note the right hon. Gentleman's very well expressed concern; and I can tell him that, through my officers, I am in touch with a large number of pensioners, and I think I can claim to be very well informed about them.

Forward to