HC Deb 01 November 1956 vol 558 cc1611-2
42. Mr. Collins

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will appoint a committee, representative of both sides of industry, to inquire into the possibility of providing increased and more varied employment for prisoners and ensuring that the sale of prison-made goods does not occasion unfair competition.

The Joint Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. W. F. Deedes)

It is certainly of the first importance that prisoners should have sufficient and suitable employment, and much is being done at present to find new sources of work. But my right hon. and gallant Friend does not consider that at this stage a committee would be helpful. He has no reason to think that the sale of prison-made goods occasions any unfair competition, or is likely to do so. It is on a comparatively small scale.

Mr. Collins

While welcoming the Minister's statement that employment of this kind is most important, may I ask the hon. Gentleman, if it is not proposed to appoint a committee to consider bringing about an improvement of the present situation, which is unsatisfactory, what are his Department's plans for bringing about an improvement?

Mr. Deedes

Perhaps I might mention three steps which we have taken in this direction. The first is to try to get more contracts through our normal channels. The second is to start, in co-operation with the Ministry of Labour, the Continental system of setting up in the prisons out-factories for the use of local employers, and several have been started. The third step is to approach the trade unions on a national level with a view to getting their sympathetic co-operation for extra-mural labour in the prisons.

Mr. Hyde

Is it not rather regrettable that sixty years after the first Departmental Committee under the late Lord Gladstone reported on this subject and made recommendations for improvements, prisoners are still largely employed on stitching mailbags? Although I know there are difficulties, will my hon. Friend do everything he possibly can to bear in mind the objective of bringing the gospel of full employment to Her Majesty's Prisons?

Mr. Deedes

The answer is that there has been a substantial reduction in the requirement of mailbags. That is one of the reasons why we have taken the steps which I have outlined.

Mr. Younger

Would the hon. Gentleman not agree that, from the viewpoint of his Department, the real difficulty lies precisely in the fact that the sales of prisoners' products are kept on this very low scale to avoid competition? Can he not tell us that some progress has been made? I am grateful to him for saying that he is consulting people—that is what we and other previous Governments said—but is he making any progress?

Mr. Deedes

When we have concluded our talks with the trade unions, I hope to be able to give the right hon. Gentleman another report.