HC Deb 31 May 1956 vol 553 cc565-9
Mr. Speaker

The next Amendment in the name of the hon. and learned Member for Ilkeston (Mr. Oliver) is not necessary because that emendation will be done automatically if the second Amendment in the hon. and learned Gentleman's name is accepted.

Mr. Watkinson

I beg to move, in page 26, line 34, at the end to add: One—By the Minister, after consultation with such bodies representative of those interests as he may think fit, to represent the interests of persons using bicycles and tricycles, not being motor vehicles, within the London Traffic Area. This Amendment will enable me, after consultation with the appropriate bodies, to appoint a member to the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee to represent the interests of bicyclists and tricyclists. During the Committee stage an Amendment was moved which would authorise the Minister to appoint two members. My predecessor gave an undertaking that he would consider that. I have therefore moved this Amendment to appoint a bicyclist or a tricyclist to the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Oliver

I beg to move, in page 26, line 34. at the end to insert: and (ii) in paragraph I, for the word 'One'. where last occurring, there shall be substituted the word ' Two ' and at the end of the said paragraph there shall be added the words `Provided that of the two last mentioned members one shall be a taxi-cab driver, working as such '". This is an addition rather than an Amendment. I am quite sure that his incomparable knowledge of London traffic must make the presence of a working taxicab driver on the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee of very great value. These men have a useful contribution to make. That is why the Amendment has been put down in this form. We want a working taxicab driver on that body because of his working knowledge. The Amendment is not moved on behalf of any sectional interest, because the contribution which these men would make to the deliberations of the Committee would benefit the whole of the traffic community in London, and in central London in particular.

I am sure that hon. Members would have difficulty in finding a person who knows more about London traffic and its problems—and those are the problems with which that Committee has to deal—than a London taxicab driver. For that reason I hope that the Minister will be good enough to accept the Amendment.

Mr. McLeavy

I beg to second the Amendment.

It is evident that London taxicab drivers. with their special knowledge of all London's traffic problems, could with advantage be given representation upon the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee. It would be of extreme value to the Committee to have at first hand the knowledge and experience of a working taxicab driver. They would get at first hand the full value of the experience of such a man and of his colleagues.

That Committee has been very important in the past. With the new proposals in the Bill, including those dealing with parking facilities and the diversion of traffic, the Committee will be even more important. It will be asked by the Minister for its advice on these matters. It seems to me more important than ever that the expert knowledge of the men of the roads, as I would call these working taxicab drivers, should be available to the Committee and that they should have direct representation on it.

I am sure that the Minister will agree that it would be of great value to the Committee were a taxicab driver appointed as a member. This proposal will, I am sure, be received with pleasure by the taxicab drivers, who take great pride in their work. It would be an acknowledgment of the experience which they could bring to the deliberations of the Advisory Committee, and also of the great service which these men contribute to dealing with the London traffic problems.

Mr. Molson

One naturally regards this Amendment with sympathy in view of the degree of our obligation to taxicab drivers. We have been tremendously impressed with their quite unrivalled knowledge of London and its traffic problems. But listening to the speeches made by hon. Gentlemen opposite, one would suppose that at present taxicab drivers were completely unrepresented on the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee. The intention of this Amendment is to increase the representation of the taxicab industry from one to two, and to ensure that at least one of these representatives should be a working taxicab driver.

We must bear in mind that if this very important Advisory Committee is to remain the extremely effective and efficient body that it is at present, it must not be too large in numbers. Section 1 of the London Traffic Act, 1924, as amended by Section 58 of the London Passenger Transport Act, I933, and the Twelfth Schedule thereto, provides that the Minister shall appoint one member to the Committee, after consultation with such bodies representative of those interests as he may think fit, to represent the interests of the taxicab industry within the London traffic area. Therefore, the taxicab industry as a whole is at present adequately represented on the Committee, and there is nothing to prevent the interests consulted by the Minister from indicating that a taxicab driver should be appointed, if they so desire.

When the Committee was last reconstituted, in 1954, the bodies consulted by the Minister were the London Motor Cab Proprietors' Association, the Taxicab Trade, which is a trade journal, and the Motor Cab Owner-Drivers Association. The Secretary of the London Motor Cab Proprietors' Association was reappointed. He has represented these interests on the Committee since 1933, and there is every reason to regard him as a most admirable representative of the industry.

Regarding employed drivers, Section 1 of the London Traffic Act, I924, as amended by subsequent legislation, also provides for the Minister of Labour and National Service to appoint five members to the Committee, after consultation with such bodies representative of those interests as he may think fit, to represent the interests of labour engaged in the transport industry within the London traffic area. The five members at present appointed by the Minister are officers of the following trade unions: the Transport and General Workers' Union, who have two representatives, the National Union of Railway men, the London Transport Joint Trades Committee Electrical Trades Union, and the Transport Salaried Staffs Association.

10.15 p.m.

There is no reason why any particular aspect affecting the labour side of the taxicab trade could not be dealt with by those representatives. There is, therefore, in our view no justification from any point of view for adding to the Committee a second member to represent taxicab interests in general or in any particular aspect. In view of the representation which now exists and of the undesirability of continuing to increase the size of this very efficient and hard-worked body, I hope that the hon. and learned Gentleman will be willing to withdraw the Amendment.

Mr. Oliver

Do I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that the Minister has power now, if he wishes to exercise it, to put a working taxi man on to that body? I took down the right hon. Gentleman's words as quickly as I could. If he has that power—and that is precisely what I hope he has—I should like him to put on the Advisory Committee, not a representative of the industry, who may or may not know a great deal of the traffic problems of London today, but someone who, from his experience as a working taxi driver. would be unrivalled for his knowledge. We desire that the Committee shall be made as effective as possible. If the Minister has power, I wish he would exercise it to fulfil the intention of the Clause.

Mr. Molson

What I indicated was that there are representatives of these trade unions. These trade unions are consulted about who should be put on the Committee. Obviously the Transport and General Workers' Union and the other transport unions are able to represent transport workers in the area, who include taxi drivers and all other kinds of drivers as well.

Mr. Oliver

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.