§ 49. Mr. Nabarroasked the Prime Minister the intentions of Her Majesty's Government in regard to the Special Report of the Select Committee on the Nationalised Industries.
§ The Prime MinisterThe Government have considered the Special Report from the Select Committee on Nationalised Industries, and, taking account of the opinion expressed therein, propose to set up a Select Committee with new terms of reference, namely:—
To examine the Reports and Accounts of the nationalised industries established by Statute whose controlling Boards are appointed by Ministers of the Crown and whose annual receipts are not wholly or mainly derived from moneys provided by Parliament or advanced from the Exchequer.The House will recall that the Select Committee appointed in 1952 recommended the constitution of a Select Committee with the object ofinforming Parliament about the aims, activities and problems of the Corporations and not of controlling their work.The Government have considered afresh the best means of achieving this objective, while also safeguarding the duties and functions of the responsible Ministers, for the discharge of which they are properly answerable on the Floor of this House. They have come to the conclusion that the right course is to appoint a Select Committee with the terms of reference which I have already announced.1418 The necessary Motion will shortly be placed on the Order Paper. There will be an opportunity to debate the matter then.
§ Mr. J. GriffithsWe shall wish to examine this matter with care when the Motion is put on the Order Paper. I think it will be in the interests of the House and of the nationalised industries that we should have an opportunity of debating the matter.
§ The Prime MinisterMy right hon. Friend the Leader of the House will introduce the Motion and there will then be an opportunity to debate it. This is admittedly an experiment, and I think the House would wish to examine the Motion and consider the action being taken.
§ Sir I. HorobinCan my right hon. Friend tell the House at this stage whether the Government have yet reached any conclusion on the point to which the last Select Committee attached great importance—namely, that any such Select Committee should have actuarial or accountancy assistance in its discussions?
§ The Prime MinisterWe hope the Committee will avail itself of specialised assistance and advice from Treasury officers concerned with the industries in question. If I may say so, I think the House will be well advised to await the terms of the Motion and what my right hon. Friend has to say about it, because the matter is too technical and complicated to try to deal with it today.
Mr. H. WilsonI wish to raise a small but important point of clarification. When the right hon. Gentleman referred to boards appointed by Ministers of the Crown, did he intend to include those boards which by Statute have to be appointed by the Crown itself? In other words, will the Bank of England come under the Select Committee?
§ The Prime MinisterThe Bank of England will not.
§ Mr. H. MorrisonThe right hon. Gentleman has referred to the terms of reference as being the "reports and accounts" of the public corporations. Are we to take it that it will be possible for wages and labour conditions, which are negotiated between the unions and 1419 the nationalised industries, to be brought before the Select Committee? Does it mean that anything that a public corporation does can come before the Select Committee? Will the right hon. Gentleman keep in mind that if we want these industries supervised meticulously, politically, either by Select Committee or by the Government, it would be better to take them under the direct jurisdiction of State Departments rather than do what we deliberately did—namely, give them a degree of day-to-day managerial freedom?
§ The Prime MinisterI agree with the right hon. Member; those are not points which could be settled by the Select Committee. Certainly not. The question is whether this is a method of machinery which will allow the House to have more information and to deal more effectively with this problem than has been possible hitherto. I should like the House to approach it, so far as it can, with an open mind, and to see whether we can make any success of it. I believe that we can.
§ Mr. MorrisonIf it is contemplated, as apparently it is, that wages and labour conditions can be brought before the Select Committee, will the Prime Minister give an affirmative answer to a question asked previously by my right hon. Friend the Member for Llanelly (Mr. J. Griffiths)—whether the T.U.C. has been or will be consulted about this? I assure him that the T.U.C. has opinions on the matter.
§ The Prime MinisterThis is, first, a House of Commons matter. I have several times been pressed to state our view. We have considered it very carefully, and I undertook to make a statement before Whitsun. I am doing that today. Certainly before the Motion is tabled there will be full opportunity for discussions of all kinds. I thought I would give the House this advance information today instead of after Whitsun so that hon. Members could consider their attitude towards it.
§ Mr. J. GriffithsDoes the right hon. Gentleman realise that it is very important indeed that we should have a full day, if not more, to discuss this question, because it raises very important matters? 1420 May I further ask him whether he proposes to make clear before we have the debate, or, if not, in the debate, the answer to the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, South (Mr. H. Morrison)—what is the actual scope of the Committee?
§ The Prime MinisterThe Motion will be tabled and it can be examined. Then there will be a period before the Motion is debated so that the House may have full opportunity to consider it.