HC Deb 12 March 1956 vol 550 cc13-5
25. Dr. D. Johnson

asked the Minister of Health if he will state the number of persons, male and female, detained in mental deficiency institutions under court orders made under Section 8 of the Mental Deficiency Act, 1913; how many of these have been detained for a longer period than five years; and how many for a longer period than ten years.

Mr. Turton

I regret that information in this form is not available.

Dr. Johnson

While regretting that this information is not available, may I ask whether my right hon. Friend would agree that there are a considerable number of these long-term detainees under this Section of the Act? Would he make a review of them in the light of the remarks of the Lord Chief Justice, as reported on Saturday, in the case of Miss Kathleen Rutty?

Mr. Turton

I think that my hon. Friend is referring to the wrong Section. Section 8 of the Mental Deficiency Act deals with those sent to a mental deficiency institution as a result of orders made by the courts. They are at present grouped with persons undergoing imprisonment who are transferred to a mental deficiency institution under Section 9 of the Act.

Dr. Johnson

May I assure my right hon. Friend that I have in mind Section 8 of the Act as being referred to in the court? Is he aware that there are a considerable number of cases of people detained for five years or longer as a result of simple crimes such as larceny, and I could give him reports of such cases that I know of myself?

Mr. Turton

If it will help my hon. Friend, I would say that the numbers under these two Sections are 5,030 males and 1,456 females.

Dr. Summerskill

In view of the rather sweeping statement of the Lord Chief Justice on this subject, does not the Minister think that he should make a considered statement in reply?

Mr. Turton

May I correct the previous error in my Answer? The figures should be 621 males and 150 females. I gave the total number of mental deficiency cases. I do not think that the Lord Chief Justice was referring to Sections 8 or 9 of the Mental Deficiency Act, but to the meaning of "found neglected" in Section 2 of the Act.

Dr. Summerskill

Would the Minister not agree that the general public does not know that? The general public reads the pronouncements of the Lord Chief Justice, and is of opinion, I think, that there is perhaps not careful consideration before these people are confined in an institution. Therefore, even in defence of his Department, I think that the Minister should make a statement.

Mr. Turton

I do not think that would be appropriate on this Question. The Lord Chief Justice was referring to action taken in 1948.

38. Dr. D. Johnson

asked the Minister of Health what facilities for the obtaining of independent legal advice are given to detainees in mental deficiency institutions under court orders made under Section 8 of the Mental Deficiency Act, 1913.

Mr. Turton

No special facilities are provided for this, but no obstacle is put in the way of patients who want to seek legal advice either directly or through relatives or friends.

Dr. Johnson

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply, may I ask if he is aware of the general anxiety felt that the detainees in these homes are in a somewhat hopeless state as regards legal advice? Can my right hon. Friend look into the matter and perhaps make facilities more readily available than they are at present?

Mr. Turton

Yes, Sir, but I would make it absolutely clear that any patient has the right to ask for a personal private interview with the Visiting Commissioner of the Board of Control, or to write under seal to the Board at any time.