HC Deb 08 March 1956 vol 549 cc2284-7
9. Mr. Albu

asked the Minister of Education what steps he is taking to ensure that the fees charged to students of colleges of advanced technology who reside outside the controlling local authority are not so high as to deter their own authorities from assisting them in accordance with paragraph 63 of Command Paper No. 9703.

Sir D. Eccles

Where students attend with the consent of the authority in whose area they live, their place of residence makes no difference to the fees charged to them.

Mr. Albu

Is not the Minister begging the question? The question is the consent of the authorities concerned. Does he not realise that it is absolutely crucial, if his policy of increasing the education in advanced technology is to be successful?

Sir D. Eccles

Yes, I do, and of course if the consent is unreasonably withheld, I am perfectly prepared to intervene.

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Albu.

Mr. Albu

Question No. 10.

Captain Pilkington

On a point of order. While I am sure that the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr. Albu) does not intend any disrespect to you, Mr. Speaker, ought he not to stand up, like everybody else in the House, when he asks a Question?

Mr. Speaker

What has been said is quite correct. The hon. Gentleman should rise in his place when he asks a Question. Apart from the question of decorum involved, it is much easier for me to see an hon. Member if he rises in his place.

Mr. Albu

I assure you that I meant no disrespect to you, Mr. Speaker. I normally rise some distance in my place, but I thought that it was for you to call me to order if I was doing anything that was out of order.

10. Mr. Albu

asked the Minister of Education on what scale the teachers in colleges of advanced technology, listed in Command Paper No. 9703, will be paid.

Sir D. Eccles

The Burnham Committee will shortly be negotiating new scales of salaries for teachers in technical colleges and submitting its recommendations to me.

Mr. Albu

Will the Minister agree that if the courses in the colleges of advanced technology are to be of university level, teachers will have to be paid on a university scale?

Sir D. Eccles

It is not for me to give direct guidance of that kind to the Burnham Committee, but I have no doubt that it will have studied the White Paper on Technical Education.

Mr. E. Fletcher

Does not the Minister realise that he will not get an adequate number of teachers, unless they are paid on the university level?

15. Mr. Chetwynd

asked the Minister of Education why he has not included the Tees-side area in his proposals for the development and extension of colleges of advanced technology.

Sir D. Eccles

The colleges listed in paragraph 68 of the White Paper are those to which I already give 75 per cent. grant. As indicated in the following paragraph, a few other colleges may be added to the list later.

Mr. Chetwynd

In view of the tremendous contribution made to our economic strength by the chemical, ship building, steel and heavy engineering industries on Tees-side, would not the Minister reconsider this point and add to this list one of the many excellent colleges there, so that we may be assured of adequate numbers of technologists for this area in the future?

Sir D. Eccles

The quality of the industry there is not the point. The point is whether there is any college which merits this particuar grading. If there is, naturally I will consider it.

Mr. Marquand

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the Constantine College in Middlesbrough, which in 1953 secured no less than 22 per cent. of the higher national certificates awarded for England and Wales, and in 1955, so progressive is it, that it had no less than 11 per cent. of the students following what are called sandwich courses? Will the right hon. Gentleman come and have a look at Constantine College at some time?

Sir D. Eccles

I certainly will, but I must tell the right hon. Gentleman that this college applied for the 75 per cent. grant in 1953 and the application was carefully examined, but the college was found not to be doing a sufficient proportion of advanced work.

Mr. D. Jones

Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate, bearing in mind the geographical size of the area, that there are more technicians required on Tees-side and that many more will be required in the near future because of the industrial development which is going on there, and that if he means what he says in the White Paper, he must do something about Tees-side?

Sir D. Eccles

The argument of the hon. Gentleman is for building up one of these colleges to an advanced level and not for recognising one as it is today.

Mr. Chetwynd

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

17. Miss Bacon

asked the Minister of Education if he will make more clear his proposals for technological education in the West Riding of Yorkshire.

Sir D. Eccles

I must first consider the proposals which the local authorities are making to me in the light of the White Paper.

Miss Bacon

Can the Minister clear up the position of the Leeds Technical College, about which there has been a great deal of doubt?

Sir D. Eccles

This is a very fine project, costing a great deal of money. Of course I shall discuss with the local authority what grade of technical college it will be. It is certainly going to be one of the outstanding colleges in that part of England.

18. Mr. Albu

asked the Minister of Education how he estimates that the £70 million worth of technical college building. to be started in the period 1956 to 1961, will be divided between colleges of advanced technology, as described in Command Paper No. 9703, and technical colleges for work at the lower levels.

Sir D. Eccles

It is too early to say, but perhaps roughly one-fifth of the total may be required for colleges of advanced technology and for the provision of branch colleges to relieve these of lower level work.

Mr. Albu

In view of the fact that one-fifth is a relatively small sum, will the Minister ensure that it is not spread too widely over these colleges, and that their standard is maintained at the highest possible level?

Sir D. Eccles

There are already building developments in progress at all but three of these colleges, and I am hopeful that, with the sum mentioned, we shall be able to bring some of them to a very high standard.