HC Deb 04 June 1956 vol 553 cc690-2
14. Mr. Gower

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what functions of his Department at Cardiff are to be transferred to Newcastle, as a consequence of recent deliberations; and what considerations have led to these deliberations.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The functions to be transferred are the preparation and issue of pension books for National Insurance pensioners in Wales. As these books are in any event delivered through post offices, the service to individual pensioners will not be affected in any way. On the other hand, the centralisation of this work together with that for England and Scotland at Newcastle, where it can be highly mechanised, will lead to a saving of about 150 staff, representing an annual expenditure of about £83,000.

Mr. Gower

In view of the fact that my right hon. Friend considers that this will be an economy, why were these functions previously transferred from London to Cardiff? In view of the fact that it represents a marked change in policy, as since the war all Governments have introduced devolution as a principle, is my right hon. Friend quite satisfied about this?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I cannot possibly answer the first part of the Question as to why these functions were originally sent to Cardiff. So far as the present change is concerned, it has absolutely nothing to do with general principles of devolution. It derives merely from the fact that this kind of operation is most economically conducted if it is highly mechanised; but if we are to get the benefits of a high degree of mechanisation, we must centralise it in one place for the three parts of the country.

Mr. Callaghan

What will happen to the 150 staff whom we are saving?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The normal arrangements are being made. In the first place, an attempt is made to post to other Departments in the area. Some will be required to follow the work to Newcastle, and it may be that the services of certain temporary staff will be dispensed with in due course.

Mr. Callaghan

Is the Minister not aware that some of these staff were transferred for the Government's convenience from London to Cardiff not too long ago? Is it fair to ask them to uproot their homes again and go to Newcastle?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I have, naturally, the greatest sympathy with any staff who are disturbed by these changes, but the House would not, I am sure, ask me to undertake the work of my Department inefficiently and extravagantly for that reason.

Dame Irene Ward

Is my right hon. Friend aware how glad we are that these functions are being transferred to Long Benton, that they will be most efficiently carried out, and how grateful we always are that the headquarters of the Ministry of National Insurance is in such a firstclass part of the country?

Mr. Steele

While I do not doubt the efficiency of the officials at Long Benton, can the Minister say how many people are involved from Cardiff and, I understand, from Edinburgh also, or is it the work now being done in the local offices which is being transferred to Newcastle?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The work which is being transferred is not work being done in the local offices. It is work being transferred from Cardiff and Edinburgh. In all, 150 staff will be saved, of whom, in round figures, 50 are from Cardiff and 100 from Edinburgh.

15. Mr. Gower

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what representations he has received from organisations in Wales, and in particular from the Council for Wales, about the proposal that certain functions of his Department be transferred from Cardiff to Newcastle.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I have received representations from the staff affected by the transfer. I also understand that the Council for Wales has made representations to my right hon. and gallant Friend the Home Secretary and Minister for Welsh Affairs, to which he has replied.

Mr. Gower

Can my right hon. Friend confirm that the Council for Wales is opposed to this transfer? Secondly. will there be a loss of status on the part of those who are the heads of this Department in Wales?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I cannot possibly say what the view of the Council for Wales will be now that it has received my right hon. and gallant Friend's explanation of these changes. So far as the heads of the Department are concerned, I am not clear whom my hon. Friend has in mind. We are transferring a particular class of work which I have described. That affects the staff directly concerned with that. It does not affect the status of such people as my Controller for Wales.

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