§ 2. Mr. Doddsasked the Minister of Supply the total receipts at the recent sale by auction of Government surplus stocks at Woolwich Arsenal which commenced on 14th February; the total cost of the sale; and what reasons were given by other Government Departments for their inability to use the tyres and inner tubes when popular sizes were included in the sale.
§ Mr. ErrollThe sale realised £120,250; auction costs were approximately £3,000. The Ministry of Supply is responsible for the provision of tyres and tubes for all Government Departments, and we decided that these tyres and tubes were either surplus to all foreseeable requirements or unfit for Government use.
§ Mr. DoddsIs it not an appalling state of affairs that when a Government Department decides that tyres are old and, therefore, because of deterioration, dangerous, it should sell them to the dealers to be resold to the unsuspecting public? If those tyres were not good enough for the Services to use why were they not scrapped, instead of being sold to be a danger on the road?
§ Mr. ErrollSurplus tyres have been sold for some time past, and there has been no cause for complaint on the grounds suggested by the hon. Member. Furthermore, there are many uses for old tyres, such as on trailers or farm vehicles where safety factors are not so important.
§ Mr. G. BrownBut does the Parliamentary Secretary really think that those tyres were bought by the dealers for the surplus purposes of which he talks? Does he not realise that they were bought for 805 resale for their normal use? His Department says that it has had no complaints that the tyres were not satisfactory. Why, then, does his Department accept the decision of other Departments that the tyres are unusable on Government vehicles? Why should there not be an inquiry into this matter? Something is outrageously wrong here.
§ Mr. ErrollVery small quantities of tyres are involved, and if they are being sold at cut prices any sensible purchaser will realise that they are not fit for normal road use on a heavy vehicle.
§ Mr. DoddsIs the hon. Gentleman aware that I attended this sale at Woolwich? Is he further aware that some of the tyres were of popular sizes and that the type of dealer there had only one purpose in mind, namely, to sell them to the public at the best possible price? Yet the Minister says that these tyres were not fit for use by the Services.
§ Mr. ErrollThe hon. Gentleman was good enough to inform the House last week that he had been to the sale.
§ 3 and 8. Mr. Doddsasked the Minister of Supply, (1) in view of the concern arising from the sale of substantial quantities of Government surplus stocks at public auctions, if he will give consideration to changing the present practice by ensuring that Government Departments and public bodies are informed of the goods available before deciding on public auction instead of as at present only informing Departments by the circulation of a catalogue prior to the holding of a public auction;
(2) in connection with the sale of 175,000 gallons of paint by public auction at Melton Mowbray on 8th and 9th March, what method was used in offering this paint to other Government Departments or public bodies, before a decision was taken to dispose of it by auction.
§ Mr. ErrollImmediately after the war, when the volume of disposal from the Services was very great and goods of all kinds were scarce, rather elaborate arrangements were made for offering surpluses to other Departments and public organisations which might be interested. 806 By 1949 it had been found that circumstances no longer justified the administrative expenses, delays and fruitless effort involved by such elaborate procedures.
In 1950 the following arrangements were adopted and are still the rule: first, the Service Department having the surplus stores satisfies itself that they are not required by another Service. Secondly, surplus stores are offered to any Civil Department which has notified the Service Department of an interest in stores of that kind. Thirdly, catalogues are sent by the Ministry of Supply to the principal buying Departments in advance of the sale, and goods may be withdrawn at their request.
The 175,000 gallons of paint were dealt with accordingly. My right hon. Friend does not consider that present circumstances call for any change in these arrangements.
§ Mr. DoddsDoes not the Minister appreciate that his right hon. Friend said last week that the standard practice is to send a catalogue to Government Departments? Does he not appreciate that these sales are decided upon and the public see these articles before the Government Departments are informed, and should it not be possible to devise some machinery whereby Government Departments obtain what they want before public sales are arranged? Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that at Woolwich there were drums of paint marked January and May, 1955? Why is it that Government Departments are still buying this popular type of paint and yet it is being sold at these knockdown prices at sales?
§ Mr. ErrollMy Answer was rather long so that the hon. Gentleman might know the whole procedure. Last week, my right hon. Friend only outlined the tail-end of the procedure, namely, the distribution of these catalogues, which is to enable Departments to ask for stores to be withdrawn from the sale before the auction takes place. As to paint, there are other Questions on the Order Paper on that subject.
§ Mr. G. BrownIs the hon. Gentleman aware that whatever procedure is laid down, something quite fantastic is happening in terms of waste—175,000 gallons of paint offered for sale at a time when the other user Departments are ordering new paint? It cannot be right, whatever 807 the procedure is said to be on paper. Will not the Minister of Supply order an inquiry into how the procedure is being used?
§ Mr. ErrollMy right hon. Friend does not feel that there is any need for an inquiry because this paint is not, in fact, required by other Departments. It is, therefore, surplus and is being disposed of.
§ 5. Lieut.-Colonel Liptonasked the Minister of Supply how much surplus paint still remains to be sold; and how much it cost.
§ Mr. ErrollAbout 175,000 gallons of liquid paint and distemper and 12½ tons of dry paint are awaiting disposal. The original cost is estimated to be £130,000.
§ Lieut.-Colonel LiptonHaving sold £26,000 worth of paint for £13,000 at Woolwich the other day, is it not clear that the unfortunate taxpayer must now accept a loss of about £63,000 on the next little lot that is coming along? Can the Minister say whether he has ascertained who is responsible for this colossal Niagara of paint that is let loose on the market? Has he yet been placed under restraint or has he been promoted to another job?
§ Mr. ErrollThe paint could hardly be described as a Niagara because most of it is solid inside the drums. The fact is that when originally purchased there was a foreseeable requirement for this paint. Now that circumstances have changed the paint is no longer required, and the proper course is to dispose of it without delay.
§ Mr. StracheyHas the Parliamentary Secretary got in touch with his colleagues on this matter and ascertained how the Services concerned originally ordered this enormous quantity of paint, and how the circumstances arose which led to the necessity to dispose of it?
§ Mr. ErrollWe have been in touch with the Departments concerned. We are satisfied that their orders at the time were reasonable.
§ Commander AgnewCan my hon. Friend assure the House that no whitewash is being retained for use within the Department?
§ Mr. ErrollIf we were in need of whitewash we should not be selling any now.
§ Mr. G. BrownAs the Minister says that he has been in touch with his colleagues and that he is satisfied that their explanation is reasonable, will he tell the House what their explanation is?
§ Mr. ErrollMy right hon. Friend referred briefly to the explanation last week, when he pointed out that circumstances had changed—in particular, the disbandment of A.A. Command and the reduction in conscription necessitating fewer installations and buildings for which this paint might have been required.