HC Deb 13 February 1956 vol 548 cc2049-54
8. Mr. Hector Hughes

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he will now specify what steps he has taken and upon what evidence he has acted in arriving at his decision to make no improvement in the pensions of the 10s. widows; and if he will now reconsider the plight of these widows, most of whom are in need of assistance.

10 and 11. Mr. Burke

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance (1) if, having regard to the recent Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee, he will now amend the regulations regarding the payment of widows' pensions by replacing the present 10 years of marriage condition by a three years of marriage condition;

(2) if he will now amend the Regulations so as to replace the widows' basic pension of 10s. by a pension at the standard rate of 40s.

14. Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether, in considering the recommendations of the National Insurance Advisory Committee, he will give priority to improving the pensions of 10s. widows.

19. Mr. Shurmer

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance, in view of the fact that the Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee makes no recommendation for an increase of pension of the 10s. widows, on the ground that there was no power to do so under the terms of reference, what action he now intends to take to increase these pensions.

20. Mr. McKibbin

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether, in the light of the Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee, he will take steps to meet the needs of a class of pensioner in respect of whom no recommendation is made, namely, the 10s. widows.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The position of these widows is one of the matters dealt with in the Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee, which I laid before Parliament on 3rd February. All the matters contained in the Report are under consideration.

Mr. Hughes

Does the Minister agree that other classes in the community have received increases in their incomes to enable them to cope with the increased cost of living? Will he, therefore, state why these poor 10s. widows should be singled out for invidious treatment?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I do not want, as the hon. and learned Gentleman, I think, will have gathered from my original Answer, to be led into comments on individual aspects of this matter until the whole matter has been properly considered. Surely the House will understand that?

Mr. T. Brown

Will the right hon. Gentleman speed up consideration of this Report, and give an assurance to the House that the Government will bring forward legislation as speedily as possible, in view of the dissatisfaction and disquiet on this question throughout the country?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I will certainly try to consider this very important and somewhat complicated Report as speedily as I can, but I think that I must come to the point of decision on it before even talking of legislation.

Mr. McKibbin

On 14th November, in answer to a question of mine, my right hon. Friend's predecessor said: I hope that when the Report appears the difficulties will be fully resolved."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 14th November, 1955; Vol. 546, c. 22.] In these circumstances, will my right hon. Friend see that something is done immediately so that his Lordship, who is now in another place, will not be too uncomfortable there?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I think I should be out of order if I did anything to make a Member of another place uncomfortable.

Mrs. Castle

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a 10s. widow in my constituency, of whom I have sent him particulars, is able to do only part-time work for £2 5s. a week, and yet is refused increased pension or National Assistance? Does he really believe that anybody today can live on £2 5s. a week, when rent, fuel and clothing are at their present prices?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I shall certainly look into that case, as the hon. Lady has been good enough to send particulars of it to me, but I would rather not comment on it until I have done so.

12. Mr. Collins

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he will now reduce to three years the qualifying period for pension for widows who remarry.

16. Mr. G. M. Thomson

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he is now in a position to state the Government's attitude to the Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee on Widows' Benefits.

18. Mrs. Mann

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if, having considered the recommendations of the National Insurance Advisory Committee, he will now make proposals for increasing the allowances of the widowed mother, and the widow in receipt of 10s. pension; and if he will introduce the necessary legislation with all speed.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Recommendations on these subjects are contained in the recent Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee. I have no statement to make at present.

Mr. Collins

In reply to an earlier Question about increases in the earnings limit from £2 to £2 10s. a week, the right hon. Gentleman indicated that he was going to accept the advice of the National Insurance Advisory Committee on that point. Is he going to accept the advice of the same Committee on this point?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I think that the hon. Gentleman misunderstood my Answer. I said, with regard to the other Report, that I was considering it. I gave no indication of my views upon it. Therefore, the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question on this Question is, I think, founded on a false hypothesis.

Mr. Thomson

Since the National Insurance Advisory Committee's remit expressly excluded the Committee from considering the level of benefit of the 10s. pension, will the right hon. Gentleman undertake, when considering this Report, that he will also consider raising the level of this scandalously inadequate pension?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

As the hon. Gentleman rightly says, the National Insurance Advisory Committee takes the view that the actual level of benefit is outside its terms of reference, but I am sure he knows that paragraphs 55 to 68 of the Report deal with very important aspects of the position of those ladies, which clearly must affect any decision on the rate.

13. Mr. Collins

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he is aware that widows who have forfeited the 10s. pension on remarriage receive no pension at all if they are widowed a second time less than ten years afterwards; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The 10s. widow's pension is paid in respect of insurance under the former Contributory Pensions Acts, and title to it can only arise in respect of widowhood following on a marriage contracted before the repeal of those Acts in July, 1948. Women widowed since that date are eligible for the appropriate widowhood benefits of the new scheme under the conditions of that scheme. The fact that the second marriage had not lasted ten years would not prevent the payment of widow's allowance or widowed mother's allowance and would prevent the payment of widow's pension only in some cases.

Mr. Collins

Is the Minister aware that in these cases to which he refers—and they amount to quite a number of cases —the widows who are twice bereaved are usually elderly, which means that though they have qualified once for pension they are disqualified merely because additional contributions have not been paid and that they are, therefore, being treated abominably? Will he not agree that such widows are being treated worse than any other class of widows, and look into that matter to see if something can be done for them speedily?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The hon. Gentleman seems to be under a misapprehension. The pension right in respect of the original marriage is forfeited not by default of contribution but as a result of remarriage, and, therefore, such a widow is in precisely the same position as any other widow under the new scheme.

Mr. Isaacs

Can the Minister answer this question? A woman in receipt of pension marries, and then her marriage is annulled. She is not divorced: her marriage is annulled. Does that bring her into the position she was in before, or does the fact that she was married cause her to lose her pension completely?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I think that the right hon. Gentleman will sympathise with me if I ask to have notice of that one.

Mr. Collins

In the case of a widow in receipt of a 10s. pension who remarries, the 10s. pension ceases. If her second husband dies before the marriage has lasted ten years there is no pension at all, not even the 10s. pension. Will the Minister put that right?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate, if he has read the Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee, that one of the Committee's recommendations in respect of reducing the qualifying period of marriage from ten to three years would deal with a good many of the points that he has in mind.

17. Mr. G. M. Thomson

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance in what year the widow's pension of 10s. was first introduced; and what is its equivalent purchasing power in terms of 1956 prices.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The answer to the first part of the Question is January, 1926, and to the second, 17s. 10d.

23. Mr. Gower

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he will remove the restrictions on the amounts which may be earned by widows without diminution of their pensions, pending his decisions on other matters affecting widow pensioners.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

No, Sir. These rules are now being examined by the National Insurance Advisory Committee in conjunction with other earnings rules and I must await their Report.

Mr. Gower

Is it not a fact that the objections which have sometimes been stated to the alteration of the earnings rule in other cases would appear to have no validity in the case of widow pensioners?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

It may well be that different principles may apply in such cases. That is the sort of point on which the advice of the National Insurance Advisory Committee would be most useful.