HC Deb 17 December 1956 vol 562 cc1057-9

[Considered in Committee under Standing Order No. 84 (Money Committees).—[Queen's Recommendation signified.]

[Sir GORDON TOUCHE in the Chair]

Motion made, and Question proposed, That, for the purposes of any Act of the present Session to provide for the dissolution of the Central Electricity Authority and the establishment of a Central Electricity Generating Board and an Electricity Council, it is expedient to authorise—

  1. (a) the payment out of the Consolidated Fund of such sums as may be required to fulfil any guarantee by the Treasury of the principal of and interest on stock issued by the said Authority or the said Council, or the principal of and interest on moneys temporarily borrowed by the said Authority or the said Council, or by the said Board, or by any of the Area Boards established under the Electricity Act, 1947, so however that the aggregate of the amounts outstanding in respect of—
    1. (i) the principal of any stock issued by the said Authority, otherwise than for the purpose of paying compensation under the said Act of 1947, and
    2. (ii) the principal of any Exchequer advances made to the said Authority under section forty-two of the Finance Act, 1956, and
    3. (iii) the principal of any stock issued by the said Council, and
    4. (iv) any moneys temporarily borrowed as aforesaid, 1058 does not at any time exceed the sum of fourteen hundred million pounds, excluding amounts outstanding in respect of stock issued or moneys temporarily borrowed for the purpose of redeeming stock or repaying Exchequer advances or repaying moneys temporarily borrowed;
  2. (b) the payment into the Exchequer of sums repaid to the Treasury under the said Act of the present Session;
  3. (c) the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of fees and allowances to any referee or board of referees in connection with appeals as to compensation under the said Act of the present Session, and of allowances to witnesses appearing before any referee or board in connection therewith;
  4. (d) the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of any administrative expenses incurred under the said Act of the present Session by any Minister of the Crown or Government department. — [Mr. Renton.]

9.54 p.m.

Mr. C. R. Hobson (Keighley)

I want to raise one or two points on the Money Resolution. I appreciate that this is not exempted business, and I do not want to prevent the Government obtaining the Resolution, but I am sure that one or two matters have not escaped the notice of the Minister or of the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, whom I saw in the Chamber a few moments ago, and whom I had hoped would have offered some explanation of it.

In this somewhat unusual Money Resolution there is no stipulation at all as to the amount of money required. Quite frankly, I cannot understand why that is so, because the indebtedness is known. It should have been possible to estimate the amount of money required. The expenditure has been made.

It is all very well to say, in the phraseology of a Money Resolution, that £X are required out of the Consolidated Fund. I should like to know at what rate of interest the money is to be borrowed. On the money that has already been borrowed the interest rates are known, but I think that, in view of the fluid nature of the money market, we are entitled to know the rate of interest that is to be paid as far as added expenditure is concerned.

I think we are also entitled to know the period of years over which repayment is to be made. It seems to me that, despite the wordiness of the Resolution, it really tells us nothing at all because, first, the sum required is not stated; secondly, the rate of interest to be paid on added expenditure is not stated; and, thirdly, the period of years over which repayment is to be made is not stated.

I think that the Government are very foolish not to have a representative of the Treasury here to explain Money Resolutions when they come before us. I only hope that the Parliamentary Secretary or the Minister can explain this one. One would have thought that as this Resolution is in the name of the Financial Secretary to the Treasury the right hon. Gentleman would have been present.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Fuel and Power (Mr. David Renton)

The hon. Member for Keighley (Mr. Hobson) asked, first, about the interest payable. He will recollect that under Section 42 of the Finance Act. 1956, the nationalised industries are at present borrowing on Exchequer advances and not out of stock in the previous usual way. I understand that the interest now being paid under the Exchequer advances is 5¼ per cent. That rate, of course, has to vary from time to time according to circumstances. I think that the hon. Member for Keighley knows from a previous reply which I gave that this varies from time to time.

I assume that the hon. Gentleman is referring not to Exchequer advances but to stock issues which may be resumed from 1st April, 1958, which is the present date of the coming into operation of the Bill. I would simply say that the period of years for each issue of stock will depend upon the terms under which it is issued, and those terms vary very much according to whether it is to be a short-dated or a long-dated stock, and according to the state of the market at the time.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported Tomorrow.