HC Deb 18 April 1956 vol 551 cc983-4
6. Mr. Callaghan

asked the Minister of Defence how many graduate scientists and technologists of equivalent standing are employed in defence establishments of all kinds.

Mr. Birch

I have been asked to reply.

Approximately 7,500 graduate scientists and technologists of equivalent standing are employed in a civilian capacity in defence establishments. In addition, there are approximately 3,000 men with such qualifications undergoing National Service. The number of Regular officers and men in all three Services who have scientific qualifications of this standard is not readily available.

Mr. Callaghan

May I take it that that figure includes those in the Ministry of supply as well as those in the Services? Secondly, in view of the grave shortage of these people in civilian industry, research and teaching institutions, what check is placed upon the requirements of the Services and the Ministry of Supply for these men?

Mr. Birch

The figure does include the men in the Ministry of Supply. The reply to the second part of the question is that the check comes through the total budgetary sum allowed by the Chancellor for research and development.

Mr. Shinwell

If 3,000 of the number to which the right hon. Gentleman referred are engaged in National Service and also scientific pursuits in the Services, are not the Government getting these men on the cheap? Why should they be called up for National Service and paid only 4s. 6d. a day when, as civilians, they would get the proper rate?

Mr. Birch

That argument might well apply not only to scientists but to historians, and any other class of people one might think of. Everybody does National Service.

Mr. Callaghan

The real problem here, upon which I want the Minister to focus, is the fact that the Services seem to be taking too large a share of our scientific manpower of which we are very short. Is he aware that it is not enough to rely upon mere budgetary controls?

Mr. Birch

I appreciate the hon. Member's point. I think that he is pursuing it with the Minister of Labour.