HC Deb 05 May 1955 vol 540 cc1890-2
38. Mr. Ernest Davies

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the number of transport units sold to date and the number of vehicles they comprised; and the number of companies disposed of and the number of vehicles owned by them.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Up to 30th April, 14,685 vehicles had been sold; 14,283 in 4,956 units and 402 in three companies.

Mr. Davies

Do not these figures show that it is only possible to sell the vehicles in very small lots of one, two or three vehicles? Does not the latest result of the last list show that out of 6,000 vehicles offered for sale in that list only 400 have been sold? Do not these figures show the complete failure of this attempt to sell off these vehicles? Will not the Minister bring this fiasco to an end?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

In view of the fact that, of the 22,500 vehicles offered two-thirds have been sold, I do not think the hon. Gentleman is entitled to draw any such deduction as that in his supplementary question.

Mr. Davies

Do not the latest results show that only 11 per cent. of the vehicles offered have been sold, and does not the right hon. Gentleman admit that that is a failure?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The hon. Gentleman cannot even jump to that conclusion, because there are a number of vehicles, even in that list, on which no decision has yet been made. The hon. Gentleman will be quite wrong, even though he might find it tactically agreeable, to confine his attention to one particular list, but the figures which I gave give the whole picture.

Mr. H. Morrison

In view of the facts to which my hon. Friend has called attention, will not the Minister come to the conclusion that it is no good dragging along like this? Ought we not to call a halt—call it a day, if he likes—and get the matter settled up, so that everybody will know where they are, instead of this drift? Has the right hon. Gentleman noticed that the General Council of the Trades Union Congress—[Laughter.] I do not know why anybody is laughing. It is a very responsible body, to which the Government ought to be grateful for its help in industrial disputes. It has a great interest in the matter, and has a very responsible frame of mind about it. The General Council has appealed to the Government to allow this process to stop and let us have a settlement, so that the Transport Commission may know where it is and get on with its job.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

As far as the latter part of the right hon. Gentleman's Question is concerned, I have had a letter from the Trades Union Congress in the last day or two, to which I shall reply fully. I cannot accept the implications in the right hon. Gentleman's Question that this matter is dragging along, in view of the fact that, since I answered Questions last week, 434 further vehicles have been sold.

Mr. Jay

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that this policy of inflicting losses on the British Transport Commission is making it more and more difficult for the Commission to meet reasonable wage claims?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

That question indicates a complete failure to understand the whole of the financial provisions, including the levy, of the Transport Act, 1953.

Mr. Jay

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that British Road Services last year made a substantial profit, of which they will be deprived as a result of this policy?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I realise that, as British Road Services are successfully disposed of, naturally the profits from the undertaking will be less, but the right hon. Gentleman must be aware of the fact that the Transport Commission are compensated for that by the well thought out provisions in respect of the levy.

40. Mr. Ernest Davies

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what revision of the estimated loss arising from the disposal of vehicles he has made in accordance with Section 14 of the Transport Act, 1953.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

None, Sir.

Mr. Davies

Why not? Since the Minister made his last estimate in September of a loss of £20 million, further vehicles have been offered for sale but only a proportion have been sold. Is it not a fact that his estimate of the loss of £20 million was based on the assumption that all the 32,500 vehicles would be sold, and, in view of his failure to sell some of them, will he not make a new estimate?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I have already told the hon. Gentleman that two-thirds of the vehicles offered for sale have been sold, and the reason why I am not altering that estimate is because it seems to me to be about right.

Mr. Davies

Does the right hon. Gentleman still think then that he will dispose of the 32,500 vehicles, in spite of the fact—and despite what he said about the list—that only 11 per cent. of the vehicles have been sold—only 400 out of the 6,000 offered?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

A supplementary question confined to one list is not really any more effective the second time of repetition.