HC Deb 17 June 1955 vol 542 cc999-1002

Considered in Committee under Standing Order No. 84 (Money Committees).—[Queen's Recommendation signified.]

[Sir CHARLES MACANDREW in the Chair]

Motion made, and Question proposed, That, for the purposes of any Act of the present Session to amend the law as respects rating and valuation for rating, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of—

  1. (a) any increase attributable to the provisions of the said Act in the sums payable out of such moneys under Part I or Part II of the Local Government Act, 1948, or under the Local Government (Financial Provisions) (Scotland) Act, 1954;
  2. (b) any increase, attributable to the provisions of the said Act of the present Session relating to property occupied for the purposes of a police force, in the sums payable out of such moneys under section three of the Miscellaneous Financial Provisions Act, 1950;
  3. (c) any increase, attributable to provisions of the said Act of the present Session relating to Gas Boards, in the sums payable out of such moneys under any other enactment.—[Mr. Sandys.]

3.43 p.m.

Lieut.-Colonel Marcus Lipton (Brixton)

It would be desirable if we could have a little further elucidation of this Money Resolution from one or other of the Ministers on the Front Bench. It must not be assumed that everything can go through "on the nod" without explanation. Perhaps the Minister, or the Parliamentary Secretary, would like to inform hon. Members as to the purport of this Money Resolution, and the estimated sums involved.

Mr. Glenvil Hall (Colne Valley)

Surely we are to have a reply from the Minister?

The Minister of Housing and Local Government (Mr. Duncan Sandys)

I think that the hon. and gallant Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton) has raised this question—I do not say to be provocative—not because he really wants an explanation of the type of expenditure that will arise. The Money Resolution is of an administrative character. As is made clear in paragraph (b) of the Money Resolution, certain demands might arise when it is decided what contribution has to be made in respect of police premises under the new arrangement, which would involve some payments for which financial authority has to be obtained. The same relates to the question of gas boards.

If the hon. and gallant Gentleman has precise points which he wishes to raise, I will try to give him information, but there is nothing of interest in the Money Resolution or anything which is controversial. However, I do not wish to deny the Committee any information which hon. Members may require in order to reach a decision on this point.

Mr. Glenvil Hall

The answer briefly, therefore, is that the Minister cannot answer the questions put by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton).

3.45 p.m.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

May I help the Minister by putting my question in a slightly different form? Can the right hon. Gentleman give the Committee any idea of the amount involved in the increases referred to in paragraphs (a), (b), and (c), even if it is only a general figure? I do not know whether millions of pounds or a few hundred thousand pounds are involved.

The Chairman rose—

Mr. Glenvil Hall

This is very important, Sir Charles. If neither of the Ministers on the Front Bench in charge of this Bill can give us the answer, ought not the Financial Secretary to the Treasury to be here in order that the Committee may be informed about what sum is involved, even if it is only a million pounds, as my hon. and gallant Friend has said? After all, we are the custodians of the public purse—at least the Government used to be, but apparently they have abrogated their function in that direction. That being the case, we are entitled to a fuller reply than that given to us by the right hon. Gentleman.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

By way of further assistance, may I put forward this suggestion to the right hon. Gentleman? If there is no urgency about having the Money Resolution today, perhaps the Minister might agree to postpone the Committee stage until one day next week, when he will be better briefed to deal with the matter. Neither I nor my right hon. Friend wish to put him at a disadvantage, and if the pressure on the Business of the House is not so great next week as to make it impossible to find time then for a short discussion on this Money Resolution, perhaps the Money Resolution could be postponed?

Mr. Douglas Houghton (Sowerby)

Could we deal with the Money Resolution on the day when we discuss general unrest?

Mr. Sandys

It is evident that the hon. and gallant Gentleman is not interested in any specific point except the legitimate one referred to by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Colne Valley (Mr. Glenvil Hall) about the total amount that might be involved. That amount will be well under £1 million and, as I said, the main item concerns the question of payments in respect of police premises. It is a contribution to the rates from the Crown which is being regularised under this procedure. There will be a much smaller amount involved in connection with the recalculation of the effect of this Measure on the equalisation grant. Those are the main items.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported upon Monday next.

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