HC Deb 06 July 1955 vol 543 cc1112-5
25. Mr. Irving

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is aware of the unemployment among drivers caused by the disposal of units of the British Road Services at Swanley and other depots; and if he will make a statement on the compensation payable to such drivers under his regulations.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I have no evidence of other than purely temporary unemployment. Compensation is payable in appropriate cases under the British Transport Commission (Compensation to Employees) Regulations, 1953.

Mr. Irving

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if, out of forty to fifty vehicles sold, only two are to remain in the district, it will be impossible to absorb these drivers locally? Is he aware that no amount of compensation can compensate them for the loss of employment which they have had for 20 to 30 years? Is he aware that this break-up will cause a cessation of trunk services between Kent and Cheshire? In view of these disastrous results, will he stop the sale of these vehicles?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I gather that the effect of the hon. Member's question is that he is against road haulage disposal.

Mr. Bottomley

Is the Minister aware that this unemployment will not be merely temporary but is likely to be permanent, not only causing trouble in industrial relations, but, I am told, likely to result in the industrial community making a complaint to the Minister?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

My information about employment is to the contrary but, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, further questions about employment are better directed to my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service.

Mr. Ernest Davies

Will the right hon. Gentleman review the point which was made by my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Mr. Irving) because the Act provides that vehicles should not be operated from different bases, and that if these are changed they are subject to the surrender of the licence? Will the Minister look into that to ensure that the law is observed?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

If the hon. Member cares to define more precisely any breach of the law, I will look into the matter. The compensation is, of course, under denationalisation more generous than it was under nationalisation in 1947.

Mr. Davies

But is the Minister aware that my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford said that the vehicles were being moved from Swanley to another part of the country? Is he aware that that in itself would be a breach of the law, because under the Act the vehicles have to operate from the same place and if they are not so operated the licences are taken away?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I certainly do not accept the hon. Member's interpretation of the law.

26. Mr. Ernest Davies

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what action he has taken on the dispute referred to him under Section 3 (8) of the Transport Act, 1953, in regard to the disposal of the British Transport Commission meat vehicles.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I have asked the British Transport Commission for further information bearing on this matter. When I receive this, I will consider the matter.

Mr. Davies

Will the Minister state what is the cause of the difference between the Commission and the Road Haulage Disposal Board? Is it a question of price or a question whether the tenderer is a reputable buyer or not?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I have nothing to add to what is stated in the Report of the Road Haulage Disposal Board, which the hon. Member has no doubt seen.

34. Mr. Ernest Davies

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation why he has given his consent to the Commission to sell its contract hire vehicles as chattels under Section 6 (1) of the Transport Act, 1953.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

My consent was asked for as part of an arrangement for dealing with the Commission's contract hire vehicles that had been agreed between the Commission, the Disposal Board and the Road Haulage Association. As the arrangement was a good one I gave my consent.

Mr. Davies

How can the arrangement be entirely a good one if these vehicles are to be sold off since, although the British Transport Commission has succeeded in renewing a large number of contracts, the Minister's permission has been given to sell the vehicles as chattels, presumably, at bargain or low prices? Can he explain the situation a little more?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

As the hon. Gentleman understands, the disposal of vehicles requires, during the currency of the contract, the consent of the other parties to the contract. In those circumstances, it seemed to all the bodies concerned that this was a workmanlike way to handle the matter.

Mr. Callaghan

If the Commission is tendering for some of these contracts again and is likely to get them, as I understand from the Report it is, how is it going to be in a position to carry them out if it has sold these vehicles as chattels?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

In its very form that is a wholly hypothetical question.

35. Mr. Ernest Davies

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what estimate he has now made of the loss likely to be incurred in the disposal of vehicles under the Transport Act, 1953.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

My estimate, for the purpose of determining the rate of levy, of the road haulage capital loss made last September is £20 million. I have not yet had occasion to revise this estimate.

Mr. Davies

Does the Minister believe that that estimate is likely to prove correct in view of the sales which have taken place since it was made? Surely he does not think that the situation has developed in the way he anticipated at that time. Further, in view of the fact that the British Transport Commission Report states that during 1954 some £14 million was received from sales, should not Parliament be informed of what the loss is on that amount?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

That may well be so, but certainly not in answer to this Question. So far as the Question is concerned, as the hon. Gentleman knows, under the Transport Act the present rate of levy continues for the rest of this year and, as I said in my answer, I have not yet had occasion to revise it.