§ 40. Mr. Wiggasked the Minister of Supply what type of British night fighter is capable of equalling the performance and fire power of the United States F86D.
§ Mr. Selwyn LloydIt would be wrong for me to give a detailed comparison between British aircraft and American aircraft which would involve disclosing matters which are secret. In any case the F86D is a single-seater night fighter and we do not use single-seater night fighters.
§ Mr. WiggIf the right hon. and learned Gentleman is concerned about security, does he realise that by reading the American and British technical Press he can establish that the F86D has a speed of 660 m.p.h. compared with our fastest all-weather fighter's speed of 600 m.p.h.? Is he also aware that the F86D has a double-dish radar, and that none of our aircraft has anything like that?
§ Mr. LloydWhat I am saying to the hon. Gentleman is that to draw a comparison between a single-seater night fighter and a two-seater night fighter is profitless. I do not believe that single-seater night fighters could operate in the climatic conditions around this country.
Mr. C. I. Orr-EwingIs it not the case that the complexity of the equipment of the single-seater night fighter F86D is so great that the serviceability of the squadrons using it is very low indeed compared with that of British squadrons which use twin-seater night fighter aircraft?
§ Mr. WiggIf the right hon. and learned Gentleman cannot make a comparison, why was the dishonest statement made in the White Paper—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—that our night fighter defences were better than anywhere else in the world?
§ Mr. SpeakerI do not know who was the author of the White Paper, but the hon. Member should not use terms like "dishonest" about other hon. Members.
§ Mr. WiggCertainly I will withdraw the word "dishonest," and I will replace it with "grossly misleading."
§ Mr. LloydIn reply to the supplementary question by the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Wigg), I would say that it is not possible to give a detailed comparison because there are many other factors besides speed and fire-power to be taken into account. The statement in the White Paper related to general performance, including the ground equipment and the equipment of the aircraft.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs it not true that in the White Paper the Government have declared that our aircraft are capable, in the event of night attack, of putting up a performance better than any other defensive aircraft in the world? Is that true as compared with what the United States Air Force can put up?
§ Mr. SpeakerMr. Shinwell.
§ Mr. ShinwellDo we take it——
§ Mr. SpeakerI observed the right hon. Gentleman rise a second time, and I have now called him. He is a former Minister of Defence.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs the right hon. and learned Gentleman now saying quite categorically that our air defence in respect of possible night attack is superior to that possessed by the United States?
§ Mr. LloydI am saying it quite definitely. I am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman, who was himself responsible for ordering many of these aircraft, should now seek to depreciate them.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The House can debate these matters later. We cannot debate them at Question Time.
§ 41. Mr. Wiggasked the Minister of Supply on what date production contracts were completed for the Venom fighter- bomber FB1 and FB4 and the Venom night-fighter NF2 and NF3; what con tracts were cancelled; and what com pensation was paid in respect of such cancellations.
§ Mr. Selwyn LloydProduction is not yet completed of any of the four marks of this aircraft, though the great bulk of the existing orders for the FB1s and the NF2s have been completed. In addition to orders placed previously, over 1,000 Venoms were ordered in the first nine months of 1951. Since October, 1951, about 750 have been cancelled and 280 changed to later marks. No compensation was paid, but materials and work done which are no longer required are being paid for at a total estimated cost of about £3. million.
§ Mr. WiggDo not the right hon. and learned Gentleman's answers to these Questions provoke wonderment as to whether the Prime Minister has undertaken a policy of unilateral disarmament without consulting either the Cabinet or the House of Commons?
§ Mr. WyattIs it not the case that the Venom night fighter becomes uncontrollable at a speed of -85 Mach, and is it not the case, therefore, that as the Americans also have the Sabre F100 night fighter, which is superior to either Meteor or Venom night fighters, it is totally untrue of the Government to pretend that we have a more effective night fighter defence than the Americans?
§ Mr. LloydWithout going into detailed comparisons between individual aircraft, I repeat that if we take the whole system into account our system is more efficient than any other in the world.
§ Mr. FollickThat is what Chamberlain said in 1938.