HC Deb 17 February 1955 vol 537 cc667-8

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Clause stand part of the Bill.

Mr. Elwyn Jones

We should not pass from this important Clause without noting the wide extent of it and the new departure which it constitutes, in that it now subjects civilians not on active service and of a very wide category to the military law. Clause 209 (2) states: Subject to the modifications hereinafter specified. Part II or this Act shall at all times"— that is to say, under active service conditions or not— apply to a person of any description specified in the Fifth Schedule of this Act who is within the limits of the command of any officer commanding a body of the regular forces outside the United Kingdom, and is not subject to military law… under the various Acts.

It will be seen from the Fifth Schedule that the persons who are subjected to military authority include Persons forming part of the family of members of any of Her Majesty's naval, military or air forces and residing with them or about to reside or departing after residing with them. Therefore, if Aunt Matilda goes on a visit to a family in some foreign field and she exceeds the speed limit in the barracks she is liable to be "whipped" before the commanding officer and fined some £10.

This marks a remarkable development in our law and a remarkable extension in the power of the military. It means that the nurses and all that category of persons are liable in conditions not of active service to be brought before the commanding officer and dealt with in accordance with these modifications. I ask whether these wide powers are necessary and whether we should encourage the Army in this respect, with all the appalling social risks involved. I tremble to think of the future of a commanding officer if he punished any Aunt Matilda in the way the Bill empowers him to do. I wonder whether it is really right that we should place these new perils in the paths of inexperienced commanding officers and whether these powers are really necessary.

Mr. Head

The hon. and learned Gentleman has perhaps expressed apprehension about taking the bread out of the mouths of foreign lawyers, but, in fact, the reason for this being introduced is that we have had a great deal of experience since the war of the difficulties arising through units and formations being overseas where there is this or that civilian offence to be dealt with in civilian courts. The British Army is all over the world today, as the hon. and learned Gentleman knows, and I am not casting any aspersions on individual nations when I say that civil courts and civil prisons vary considerably.

This matter was carefully considered. It was referred to the Whitley Council because it was concerned with civilians. It was referred to N.A.A.F.I. and to everybody concerned, and it was agreed that it would be to the advantage of the individual civilian who was accompanying the soldiers over the wide world that this provision should be in the Bill. It was for their benefit that it was inserted and not to victimise anyone.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 210 ordered to stand part of the Bill.