HC Deb 17 February 1955 vol 537 cc659-61

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Clause stand part of the Bill.

8.45 p.m.

Mr. Fernyhough

This Clause is one of the most objectionable Clauses in the Bill. It is a Clause which deals with collective punishment, and if there is anything that I abhor it is that innocent people should be made to suffer the consequence because the culprit cannot be found. It does not matter whether that happens in Kenya, Malaya or in the British Army, I am against it.

I think that there is something wrong in a situation in which, when the military police or the investigators have been unable to find the culprit who caused the damage, the authorities should say, "All of you must make good the damage." There is nothing more likely to cause bitterness and resentment than an innocent man being made to pay for some action of which he is completely innocent. Collective punishment—it does not matter where it is imposed—arouses more bitterness and animosity than anything else I know.

I hope that on Report it will be found that something a little more generous has been brought in. I would never, in any circumstances, support the principle that those who are innocent should be punished because those who are guilty cannot be found.

Mr. Head

From the time when I myself was at school, I have never been in favour of collective punishment, because I was once beaten in conjunction with 27 other boys, and I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that I was innocent.

Mr. Ede

We understand that.

Mr. Head

This is a point which the hon. Gentleman can perfectly well argue on those lines. If, on the other hand, in all the barracks of the British Army throughout the world it were said that because an individual culprit could not be found the damage would be put down to public funds, the total rise in the cost of the Army Estimates would be quite considerable.

Mr. Ellis Smith

How much on the Income Tax?

Mr. Head

I cannot answer that without notice. But it is a fact that this provision does not operate very often, because soldiers are well aware that if the individual responsible is not found they will be dealt with collectively. Being aware of this, the chances of finding the individual go up by about 98 per cent. If we say that, because we cannot find the individual responsible, the damage will be put down to public funds, I can assure the hon. Gentleman that, human nature being what it is, the total increase in public funds would be very considerable. I think that this is a Clause which, in the interests of public economy, must remain in the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 149 to 179 ordered to stand part of the Bill.