Fighter Aircraft (Hansard, 2 February 1955)

§ 31. Mr. Wyatt
asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air when he expects the P1 English Electric and the Javelin to be ready for operational use.

Mr. Ward
The Javelin should be in Squadron service during the coming financial year. Development of the P.1 is proceeding satisfactorily, but this aircraft is still in its early stages, and I am not willing to make a statement now about when it is likely to come into service.

§ Mr. Wyatt
Can the Under-Secretary say whether the Javelin will be fit for operational service when it is with the squadrons, as it is known that the Hunter is not yet fit for operational service? Would he not agree that the Royal Air Force has no modern fighter fit for operational service at all?

Mr. Ward
I am dealing with the last point on a later Question. It is not quite true. As far as the Javelin is concerned, there is no evidence whatever that we have now that it will not be perfectly fit for operational service when it comes in.^*

§ 36. Mr. Wigg
asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air what tests his Department made of the D.H.110 and on what date they were discontinued; and whether it is proposed to authorise the purchase of any of these aircraft for use by the Royal Air Force.

Mr. Ward
Royal Air Force pilots from the Ministry of Supply's Aircraft and Armament Experimental Establishment flew the D.H.110 at the firm's request in March, 1952, and again in July, 1954. We are not planning to buy this aircraft for the Royal Air Force.

§ Mr. Wigg
Can the Minister explain why, if the R.A.F. do not want it, presumably because it is no good—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—the Royal Navy have now bought it?

Mr. Ward
The facts are that in 1952 the Air Council was faced with a choice between the Javelin and the D.H.110 for the same job, as an all-weather two-seater fighter. At that time we preferred the Javelin because it seemed capable of greater development, though that does not mean that there was anything wrong with the D.H.110. Indeed, reports by pilots who flew it in July were extremely favourable.

§ Mr. Wigg
Is it the case that when the Air Council had to choose between the two aircraft they chose the Javelin because it does not exist?

Air Commodore Harvey
Is it in order to say that pieces of equipment or aircraft are no good, bearing in mind that young men have to fly these aircraft and that it may cause great distress to parents outside this House?

§ Mr. Speaker
That is no point of order for me. An hon. Member who asks a question makes himself responsible for the truth of any statement which it contains.

§ Mr. Langford-Holt
Is my hon. Friend aware that, although it may be true that the Navy have often had to take second place, it is also true, and a point which the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Wigg) does not know, that the type of aircraft the Navy needs for sea work and the type of aircraft the Royal Air Force needs may be quite different?

Mr. Ward
I understand that the Javelin would have been too heavy for the Navy in any case.

§ Mr. A. Henderson
Would the Minister make the picture quite clear and give the position of the Javelin? Surely he does not want the House to go away with the impression that the Javelin had not then flown? Is it not the case that the two prototypes flew and a choice was made between the prototypes?

Mr. Ward
I feel pretty sure that the prototype had already flown, but I should like to check that.

§ Mr. Wigg
Is there anything else in the Royal Air Force besides prototypes?

§ 38. Mr. Wyatt
asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air when he expects the defects in the Hunter fighter, which caused the engines to stall when the guns are fired, to be cured.

Mr. Ward
It will be necessary to make certain modifications, which are now being planned, to ensure that in all circumstances the Hunter's guns will not affect the performance of its engine. But I should make it clear that, as it is, the Hunter is a formidable aircraft and could go into action tomorrow.

§ Mr. Wyatt
How can the Minister say that it can go into action when if the guns are fired the engines stall.? Is it not the case that, as the Hunter cannot fight operationally, as the Swift will never fly operationally, and the Javelin and the P.1 are not yet available, and as there are no guided missiles to replace Anti-Aircraft Command, at present we have no air defence whatsoever of this country?

Mr. Ward
The Hunter is perfectly capable of going into action tomorrow. It is true that at certain heights and in certain conditions of flight a surge is caused in the engines by the firing of the guns, but that is a matter which can be got over.

§ Mr. Assheton
Although there may be considerable anxiety on these matters, would it not be very much better if hon. Members were more discreet in the Questions they ask?

§ Mr. Shinwell
Is it not true that the reason the Hunter aircraft is equipped with guns is that, although originally it was intended that it should use air-to-air missiles, they are not available, nor is the equipment satisfactory for the purpose?

Mr. Ward
It is true to say that with its four guns the Hunter is the hardest-hitting aircraft anywhere in service.