HC Deb 07 December 1955 vol 547 cc370-3
24. Mr. Zilliacus

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the Soviet refusal to negotiate on the basis of the inclusion of a united Germany in a Western alliance, he will put forward alternative proposals, based on admitting Germany, after her unification through free elections, to the United Nations and to an all-European regional agreement implementing the provisions of the Charter concerning pacific settlement of disputes, control of armaments, keeping of peace and economic co-operation.

Mr. H. Macmillan

Far from asking the Soviet Union to negotiate on the basis of a United Germany's inclusion in a Western alliance, the Western Powers put forward at Geneva proposals for a freely elected all-German Government, free to choose its own alliances. Unfortunately, Mr. Molotov rejected unification through free elections, which is the basis of the hon. Member's own proposal, on the grounds that "conditions" in Germany were not yet ripe.

Mr. Zilliacus

Did not Mr. Molotov, on several occasions in the last Geneva talks, say explicitly that the Soviet Union accepted free elections for the unification of Germany but objected to the inclusion of Germany in a Western alliance? No doubt the conditions on which the Soviet Union accepted free elections had to be negotiated but will not the Foreign Secretary consider a fresh approach to the unification of Germany based on the United Nations rather than on the balance of power in the Western alliance?

Mr. Macmillan

The full account of the discussions at the Geneva Conference has now been published in a White Paper, and, therefore, the hon. Gentleman can form his own opinion, as all other hon. Members can, of what was or was not said. However, I have vivid recollections of the scorn which Mr. Molotov poured upon the conception of free elections. He argued strongly for the single list. I tried to persuade him that he really would enjoy, if he only had the experience, the possibility of being, for instance, the defeated candidate in an election, but he did not seem to take much note of it.

Mr. D. Jones

Would the right hon. Gentleman enjoy the prospect? Would he not be off to Bromley as quickly as he could if that was the prospect?

Mr. Speaker

These Questions are dragging out longer and longer. I would ask hon. Members to try to ask questions and not make speeches.

Mr. J. Hynd

Will the Foreign Secretary assure the House that in any pro- posed new approach to the unification of Germany, the Government will not depart from the conception, which has not only been accepted by the House but was also explicit, if not implicit, in Mr. Molotov's statement, that a united Germany must be sovereign and independent?

Mr. Macmillan

Yes, Sir. We want Germany to be united, we want Germany to be free, and we want Germany to have in her own hands the choice of her policy.

Mr. Usborne

Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to hedge on this? He says he wants Germany to be free and to exercise independence. What if Germany decides to be neutral and to pull out of N.A.T.O.? Would he allow that freedom?

Mr. Macmillan

Yes, Sir. We have said over and over again—both the party to which. I think, the hon. Gentleman belongs, and the Conservative Party—that if we could obtain agreement by the Russians to the principle of a unified Germany, we were prepared to put the choice entirely in the hands of the Germans and stand by the result.

25. Mr. Warbey

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs which clauses of the draft security treaty submitted by the Western Powers at the Geneva Conference it is proposed should come into effect in any case, whatever the decision of a reunited Germany regarding military affiliations.

Mr. H. Macmillan

This is a matter which the Western Powers proposed at the Geneva Conference should be determined by common consent. As the Soviet delegation refused to consider the Western proposals, this particular point could not be discussed.

Mr. Warbey

Since the right hon. Gentleman gives a completely vague answer to the Question, does not this mean that the only firm offer which was made at Geneva to the Russians was one which was conditional upon the entry of a united Germany into N.A.T.O.? Does not this make nonsense of the reply which the right hon. Gentleman has given to a previous Question?

Mr. Macmillan

No, Sir. If the hon. Gentleman will read the White Paper—

Mr. Warbey

I have done so.

Mr. Macmillan

Then, if the hon. Gentleman will read it with a certain amount of tolerance about what might be the right being on the side of his own country—if that thought would ever enter his mind—he will see that the position that we took was very flexible and very fair. If the Russians had seriously considered negotiation—serious negotiation—they would not have found us or our Western Allies unforthcoming.

Mr. McGovern

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when the question of a unified Germany was raised with the Germans in Moscow, both Khruschev and Bulganin simultaneously declared that they would never in any circumstances agree to the unification of the East and the West? They said, "These people in the East are our friends, they are apostles of Marx and Lenin, and in no circumstances will we agree to unification with the West."

Mr. Macmillan

I am afraid that for the moment we have to draw the melancholy deduction that what the hon. Gentleman has said represents the facts. We can only hope that by a long process of effort and of negotiation we shall be able to change that point of view.