HC Deb 15 November 1954 vol 533 cc12-4
22. Mr. Gibson

asked the Minister of Food how much of the capital and revenue loss, respectively, incurred by the London County Council civil restaurants was met from the accumulated profits of the civil restaurants and their predecessors, the Londoners Meals Service.

Dr. Hill

As the reply contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Mr. Gibson

Surely the hon. Gentleman is making this more difficult than he ought? There are two figures involved. Is he aware that the figures, which were given in reply to an earlier Question, of a £98,000 loss arising on capital expenditure and a £170,000 loss on revenue account, have been met by accumulated reserves, accumulated profits? It is completely misleading to give replies to Questions of this kind which do not tell the London ratepayers that there has not been a charge on the ratepayers for the London civic restaurants.

Dr. Hill

When the problem came to my right hon. and gallant Friend under the Act of 1947 there had been a loss in the three preceding years of £161,000. My right hon. and gallant Friend was required by the Act to give a dispensation only if he could see a prospect of profitability. He gave that dispensation in 1952 and 1953, and there was a loss in 1952–53 of £5,100 and in 1953–54 of £8,700. The amount that has fallen on the rates has been £71,000 in the last four years.

Mr. Gibson

I am sorry, but the Minister is mixing it up in talking about something about which I did not ask a Question. The Question was how much of the losses, the paper losses, have been met. The objection was that he did not give all the figures when he gave the earlier reply, which was, as I have said, that there had been a loss of £98,000 on the capital account. A great proportion of the loss has been met from accumulated reserves.

Dr. Hill

It is true that some £200,000 of the losses have been met from the reserves which might otherwise have gone to the relief of London's rates. It is equally true that £71,000 has fallen on London's rates in four years.

Mr. Nabarro

The Labour Party is a high rate party.

Following is the information: Of the losses incurred since 1st April, 1949, £105,137 was met from the accumulated surplus on revenue account at that date and £98,205 from a reserve fund. The balance of loss amounting to £71,157 was charged to rates. My right hon. Friend understands that the reserve fund arose from the Londoners Meals Service which functioned prior to the coming into operation of the Civic Restaurants Act, 1947. I am unable to give the allocation of these accumulated profits between capital and revenue loss.
26. Mr. Skeffington

asked the Minister of Food how much in Profits and Income Tax was contributed by the London County Council civic restaurants during the whole period of its operation.

Dr. Hill

This information is not available to my right hon. Friend.

Mr. Skeffington

Would the hon. Gentleman say whether or not it is a fact that a very considerable sum of money was paid through Income Tax and Profits Tax to the Treasury that might have gone otherwise in reliefs of which he spoke with such concern just now?

Dr. Hill

Under the 1947 Act, my right hon. Friend comes into the picture and has the facts reported to him only if there has been a loss. On the general point, I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply I have just given to the hon. Member for Clapham (Mr. Gibson).

Mr. Gibson

It was evasive.