HC Deb 10 November 1954 vol 532 cc1181-4
26. Mr. Jay

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will take steps to amend the Transport Act, 1953, so as to preclude the sale of premises and lorries owned by British Road Services where it is impossible to offer alternative work in that undertaking to those displaced.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

No, Sir. As the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, suitable provision for compensation for loss of employment is made by Regulations made under the Transport Act, 1953.

Mr. Jay

Is the Minister aware that in my constituency there is a case, of which I have sent him particulars, in which an efficient enterprise has been broken up and the staff discharged without any assurance of alternative employment? What is the point of such an operation?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The right hon. Gentleman was good enough to draw attention to a particular case, in respect of which I am glad to inform him that most of the men have been offered suitable employment. The right hon. Gentleman will recall that the arrangements made for compensation to employees on denationalisation were conspicuously more generous than those made on nationalisation.

Mr. Jay

What is the advantage of having such an operation at all?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I would refer the right hon. Gentleman to our debates on the Transport Act, 1953.

31. Mr. Jay

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether, in view of the capital loss of £20 million sustained by the British Transport Commission from the sale of road vehicles, he will take steps to amend the Transport Act, 1953, so as to terminate the sale of road vehicles and other publicly-owned property.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

No, Sir.

Mr. Jay

As the Minister has admitted the loss of £20 million of public money, the breaking up of an efficient industry and depriving a number of workpeople of their jobs, does he not think he has done enough?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The right hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well—if he does not know, he can inform himself from the Third Schedule of the 1953 Act —that this is not a question, in the crude sense in which he used it, of a loss of public money. It is in settlement of the charges which arose from the process of denationalisation reimbursed by the Commission.

Mr. Woodburn

Would the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether he has given his consent, as some people are boasting, to the private sale of the South-West of Scotland Road Transport to a private concern at a throw-away price?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

That, of course, is a different question. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will be good enough to put it down.

Mr. Renton

Will my right hon. Friend consider issuing a simple public statement which will counteract the inaccurate and unfair effect of the propaganda of the party opposite?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I think the crude suggestion made in certain quarters of a loss of this sort will probably discredit itself, but I will bear the suggestion in mind.

51. Mr. Ernest Davies

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when it is proposed to introduce legislation to terminate sales of road vehicles owned by the British Transport Commission.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The only such proposals of which I have heard are those of the hon. Gentleman and his friends. The time of their introduction is, therefore, so remote as to amount to the merest speculation.

Mr. Davies

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that proposals which are made from this side of the House are eminently desirable? Does he not realise that no section of public opinion, whether trade, industry or agriculture, is in favour of continuing with the disposal of road haulage vehicles at the present time?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

On the second part of the question, I have seen very little evidence to support the hon. Gentleman's point of view. On the first part of the question, I should be a little doubtful about a horse from that stable.

Mr. H. Morrison

The right hon. Gentleman has limited experience of being a full Minister. Does he not think that it is best to answer the Question on the Paper rather than merely be gratuitously impudent?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

If the right hon. Gentleman, whose courtesy I will seek to emulate, had studied the Question before that intervention, he would have seen that I was asked by his hon. Friend when it is proposed to introduce legislation of that nature. My answer was that the only proposals came from the right hon. Gentleman's own party and that for that reason the prospect appeared to be remote. That seems to me to be an answer which has the merit of being both relevant and true.

Hon. Members

Hear, hear.

Mr. Davies

What are the Minister's intentions? Is he continuing with the sale indefinitely or is he bringing them to an end? The House would like to know what is his policy.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I am carrying out the duties laid upon me by Parliament to dispose of these vehicles.

Mr. Popplewell

Will not the Minister look again at this matter? He must know that business and commercial interests all over the country are deploring the continuation of these sales. [HON. MEMBERS: "Rubbish."] Oh, yes; chambers of trade, chambers of commerce, all of them are saying it. Will not the Minister look into the question to see what he can do to ensure that an efficient service is given?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I am as concerned as the hon. Member that there should be as efficient a service as possible, but he must accept it from me that a great volume of opinion in the country—[HON. MEMBERS: "Nonsense."]—regards a system of private enterprise as giving the greatest efficiency.

Mr. Morrison

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that his first duty to the House is to answer Questions on the Order Paper and not to subordinate the answering of Questions merely to winning the cheap cheers of his supporters? Is it now the settled policy of the Government, who are responsible to the House as a whole, that any proposal coming from the Opposition is bound to be wrong? Have we reached a stage of dictatorship when the Government are not prepared to listen to any proposal merely because it comes from the Opposition?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The answer under this Government is undoubtedly "No, Sir," but I ask the right hon. Gentleman to search his conscience as to whether that applied in 1945.

55. Mr. Ernest Davies

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the total administrative costs incurred to date by the Road Haulage Disposal Board in disposing of the road haulage organisation of the British Transport Commission.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

All the expenses of the Board are administrative costs. Twenty-seven thousand, nine hundred and fifty-four pounds is the total of its expenses to 5th November, 1954.

Mr. Davies

Is this not money which is being poured down the drain? Is it not ridiculous to spend this amount to make the loss of £20 million which is being made on the disposal of road haulage vehicles, and can we not call it a day?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The hon. Member knows perfectly well that that is not an accurate or fair way of expressing the position. This is a moderate sum economically expended to carry out the wishes of Parliament.

Mr. Davies

Does the Minister consider a £20 million loss a moderate sum?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The question which the hon. Member put down, and which, therefore, I assume he had in mind, is one to which the answer was £27,000.