HC Deb 31 May 1954 vol 528 cc878-82
13. Mrs. Mann

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will issue a statement to consumers on protection against overcharges and assessment of proper prices for grades supplied to them by coal merchants.

The Minister of Fuel and Power (Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd)

I would refer the hon. Lady to the answer given to the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. Hamilton) on 17th May.

Mrs. Mann

Is the Minister aware that, in spite of that answer, housewives are complaining about the whole quality of coal, that merchants tell them that they have to take what the merchants get, and there is a widespread feeling that housewives are being charged for first-quality coal and given fifth and sixth-quality coal?

Mr. Lloyd

The availability of the different qualities of coal generally must depend upon the actual coal that is coming from the collieries, but with regard to any particular supply, it must be a matter for proper enforcement.

14. Mrs. Mann

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he takes when fixing prices for domestic fuel to ensure that these prices are appropriate to the different grades involved.

Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd

The National Coal Board, with the assistance of the distributive trade, has classified house coals nationally into seven groups according to quality and, after consultation with me, have fixed prices for these groups which reasonably reflect the differences in quality between them.

Mrs. Mann

Can the Minister say how the National Coal Board ensures that the merchant is giving the housewife the appropriate grade according to the price he is charging? Is he aware that at present there is a check-weighing machine which weighs coal and there are prosecutions for short weight? Should there not be a method of prosecuting for supplying a wrong grade?

Mr. Lloyd

There are such prosecutions, and the hon. Lady has a Question about them later on.

Mr. Burden

Has my right hon. Friend received any representations regarding the advertisements recently issued whereby it was indicated that all domestic coal would be subject to a summer price reduction of 10s. whereas, in fact, I am told that only some of it was so reduced? If it is true, will my right hon. Friend look into it and see that proper information is given?

Mr. Lloyd

All coals in the household groups were so reduced.

15. Miss Ward

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will give a break- down of the figures which account for the difference between the pithead price of coal and the cost to the consumer, on the lines of the breakdown of the pithead price published in the annual report of the National Coal Board.

Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd

The basic retail price of 130s. 2d. per ton for house coal of average quality sold in London, is made up of 70s. pithead price, 33s. 9d. transport, 24s. 2d. retail delivery costs, and 2s. 3d. retail profit margin.

Miss Ward

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that is not nearly the same kind of breakdown in prices as that of prices at the pithead, and would it not be fairer to the miner as well as to the consumer if there were a proper breakdown so that we could see clearly and absolutely what the position is? Will my right hon. Friend consider that point seriously?

Mr. Lloyd

indicated assent.

16. Mr. Hamilton

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether, in order to help the domestic consumer to check the grade of fuel delivered, he will take steps to ensure that retail merchants indicate on consignment notes to their customers the rail wagon number from which the fuel was loaded, or the road wagon number when loaded at the colliery.

Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd

I am already considering a suggestion on these lines.

Mr. Hamilton

Can the Minister give an assurance to the House that he is devoting considerable energy and some money to this question, from the practical point of view of safeguarding the consumer, because, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge and Airdrie (Mrs. Mann) says, there is a considerable degree of feeling among consumers that they are being fleeced by the coal retailers?

17. Mr. Hamilton

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power to what extent price checks are carried out on domestic coal deliveries; and what factors now limit the scope of such checks.

Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd

My Department's staff of 50 fuel inspectors do this as part of their normal duties. I have no evidence to suggest that any increase in this work is necessary at present.

Mr. Hamilton

Does that answer mean that the Minister is perfectly satisfied that there are sufficient inspectors or officers to do this work to cope with the requirements of consumers.

Mr. Lloyd

As at present advised, I would not want to increase my Department's staff of inspectors in this way.

18. Mrs. Mann

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how many prosecutions have been brought against coal merchants in Great Britain for supplying lower grades of coal at higher-grade prices.

Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd

I cannot answer the hon. Lady's specific Question but all overcharging prosecutions numbered 95 in 1952 and 114 last year.

Mrs. Mann

Is the Minister aware that if it is possible to have prosecutions for other offences it should be possible to have prosecutions for selling grade 5 coal at the grade 3 price and grade 3 coal at the grade 1 price, and does not the Minister think, in due fairness to the industry as a whole, and the miners in particular, that something should be done to stop the exploitation of the housewives?

Mr. Lloyd

The figures that I have given include the type of prosecution which the hon. Lady mentioned. But, of course, there is no doubt that while this is a difficult problem it is much intensified by the fact that coal is rationed. The problem would be very much eased if we were able to have sufficient supplies to deration coal and to enable householders to choose freely.

Mrs. Mann

Does that mean that the coal merchants are taking the advantage of the housewives because supplies are scarce?

Mr. Lloyd

No, I do not think that would be a fair thing to say. I certainly would not wish to say it about the great majority of merchants, but the fact is that one of the great disadvantages of rationing is that it makes possible this kind of practice, which has its own natural corrective under freedom of choice.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he has suggested to the Coal Merchants' Association that it should discipline those members who are not doing their job properly?

Mr. Lloyd

I am in consultation with the Coal Merchant's Federation, which has given me every co-operation.

Sir H. Williams

Mr. Speaker, would it be possible to introduce prosecutions for long-winded supplementary questions?

24. Miss Ward

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will introduce legislation to give the consumer of coal the same protection against stone being sold as coal which is given by the Merchandise Marks Acts in respect of other consumer goods.

Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd

I am advised that the Merchandise Marks Acts apply to coal.

Miss Ward

Could my right hon. Friend tell me why the National Coal Board is permitted to sell stone and dirt as coal, and is not that a fraudulent sale? In the interests of the consumers of this country, will my right hon. Friend apply the Merchandise Marks Act to coal and, where necessary, institute prosecutions? Could I have an answer?

Mr. Lloyd

It is for individuals to take legal advice as to whether they wish a prosecution to take place or not.

Mrs. Mann

Is the Minister aware that coal merchants have the opportunity of buying from the Coal Board and from the pithead grades from one to seven; that it is common practice for the merchants to mix grade 5 with grade 1 coal, charge the grade 1 price and blame the Coal Board, and that the hon. Lady is one of the "stooges"?

Miss Ward

On a point of order. Unfortunately I did not hear what the hon. Lady said. [HON. MEMBERS: "Stooge."] Would she kindly repeat it—[HON. MEMBERS: "Outside."] I understand now that the hon. Lady called me a "stooge." Is that in order, Mr. Speaker, and if it is, would you kindly ask her to substantiate a statement of that kind, which is most monstrous?

Mr. Speaker

I am not quite clear myself as to what the word means, but if there is any offensive implication I am sure that the hon. Member for Coat-bridge and Airdrie (Mrs. Mann) will withdraw it. I do not recall having had to rule on that word before.

Mrs. Mann

If you are in doubt as to the interpretation of the word "stooge," Mr. Speaker, may I try to interpret it?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Lady used the word and, presumably, before she used it she had some idea of what it meant. I am asking her, if it has an offensive meaning, to withdraw it. If it was not meant offensively she should leave it alone.

Hon. Members

Withdraw.

Mrs. Mann

If I had had any intention of using the word in an offensive manner I should certainly withdraw, but I had no intention of using it in that way.

Miss Ward

On a point of order. I do not mind tuppence about the hon. Lady's statement, but can I now ask for a proper answer to my Question from the Minister, with whom I am concerned?

Mr. Speaker

It is too late for that now.

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