SOUTH-EAST ASIA (DEFENCE)

HC Deb 10 May 1954 vol 527 cc833-6

18. Mr. Warbey

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the consultations which have taken place regarding the proposed security pact for South-East Asia.

28. Mr. Beswick

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a further statement about a proposed Pacific security pact.

45. Mr. Bevan

asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on the plans which are proceeding for the realisation of a South-East Asia security arrangement.

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

I will with permission answer Questions Nos. 18 and 28, and No. 45, addressed to the Prime Minister, together.

Her Majesty's Government have nothing yet to add to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary on 13th April and by the Prime Minister on 27th April.

Mr. Warbey

Is it not a most extraordinary state of affairs that the Minister has made no fewer than three statements to this House saying that no discussions have been going on, and that President Eisenhower said last week that conversations were proceeding and that a security organisation for South-East Asia was in process of formation? Will the Minister tell us exactly what is going on? Will he drop these diplomatic evasions and tell us quite frankly whether any talks, conversations, consultations or discussions are going on about this matter and what is their gist or purport?

Mr. Lloyd

The statements to which the hon. Member referred must be considered each in its context. It is clear that the President was referring to informal and exploratory conversations. It is equally clear that on each occasion on which I referred to this matter I was referring to more formal discussion attended by representatives of a number of States.

Mr. Bevan

Is the Minister aware that he stated that no discussions have been arranged, and that the President stated that: Most of the free nations of the area and others directly concerned have shown affirmative interest and conversations are actively proceeding… The fact that such an organisation is in the process…

Hon. Members

The right hon. Gentleman is reading.

Mr. Bevan

I am quoting. Mr. Speaker, can I please have your protection from the rowdies opposite? I am quoting from President Eisenhower's statement, which is in flat contradiction to what the Minister said last week. Can we have the truth for a change?

Mr. Lloyd

I do not know what the right hon. Gentleman means by his expression, "for a change" The question I was asked was whether in one instance there had been any agreement to hold 10-Power talks. There has been no such agreement to hold 10-Power talks. I was asked whether discussions were taking place to which India, Ceylon and Pakistan had been invited. No such discussions are taking place. As I said before, there have been no arrangements made for formal discussion at which a number of States shall attend. I admit that possibly the words "talks" and "discussions" may be capable of misunderstanding; but if the right hon. Gentleman will be so fair as to see the context in which the statements were made, he will see that upon each occasion it was a reference to something of a formal nature attended by a number of States. I have never disputed that informal or exploratory conversations were going on.

Mr. Bevan

On 5th May the right hon. and learned Gentleman said that no discussions had been arranged. Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman make a distinction between conversations about a specific object and discussions about it?

Mr. Lloyd

If the right hon. Gentleman sees the supplementary question to which that was an answer, he will see that it asked whether there were discussions taking place to which India, Ceylon and Pakistan had been invited.

Mr. Paget

Is it not the job of allies to be in continual consultation as to how they shall meet any eventuality?

Mr. Bevan

Why deny it, then?

Mr. Beswick

Can we take it that what is, in fact, happening is that there are some exploratory discussions and a technical examination of the problems involved by what were described as military aides? May I ask whether the decision to hold the informal discussions and the technical talks was made at the time that Mr. Dulles came to this country, and whether they had been decided upon when the Foreign Secretary made his statement to the House?

Mr. Lloyd

It depends what the hon. Gentleman means by discussions. There are not now taking place round a table discussions at which the representatives of 10 countries are taking part. There are conversations going on between one Government and another through the normal channels—for example, between us and the Governments of India, Pakistan and Ceylon.

Mr. Henderson

As it was my supplementary to which the right hon. and learned Gentleman was replying, may I ask whether he was aware that I used the term "discussions" according to the normal diplomatic usage, which is consistent with conversations? May I, therefore, ask him whether the three countries to which I referred in my supplementary are, to his knowledge, considering the possibility of a pact in South-East Asia?

Mr. Lloyd

I think that the right hon. and learned Gentleman asked me whether they had been invited to take part in discussions. There are no discussions taking place in which anybody can be invited to take part. What is happening is that there is an exchange of views between Governments. Certainly, exchanges of views have been taking place and will continue to take place between us and the Governments of India, Pakiston and Ceylon. I might add that the interchanges which have already taken place with those three countries have been particularly valuable.