WANDSWORTH PRISON (CONDITIONS)

HC Deb 04 June 1954 vol 528 cc1639-63

1.6 p.m.

Mr. Richard Adams (Wandsworth, Central)

I am glad to have this opportunity of calling attention to conditions in Wandsworth Prison, particularly in view of the incident which occurred there on Wednesday, 26th May, when five prisoners and five prison officers were seriously injured, and a further 16 officers suffered injury.

In view of that incident and in the light of replies given by the Secretary of State for the Home Department last Monday, I thought it was my duty to visit the prison in order to ascertain some of the facts for myself. This I did yester- day, in company with my hon. Friend the Member for Ladywood (Mr. Yates). I should like to thank the Home Secretary for making the necessary arrangements, but that is the only thanks I shall express to him today.

We made an inspection of the prison lasting 3½ which was not long enough, in company with the Governor Mr. William Lawton, and the Director of Establishments Mr. R. D. Fairn. We had an opportunity afterwards of discussing conditions there in company with Mr. Blow, the representative of the officers and the secretary of the local branch of the Prison Officers' Association, and Mr. Lumb, the chairman of the branch. I should like to take this early opportunity of thanking those persons for the help they gave to us and of paying a tribute to the general demeanor of all the staff there in very difficult and trying circumstances.

I was seriously disturbed by my visit and by such examination of the facts as I was able to undertake. I do not think that the general public know the half of what goes on behind the high, grim walls of Wandsworth Prison, and nobody, I imagine, is aware that there have been 12 serious assaults there during the past 12 months, one case of gross violence against an officer and, of course, the latest incidents just over a week ago. I got the impression that all concerned with administration in the prison felt that the situation there was worse than it was six months or 12 months ago.

Let me describe the conditions as I saw them and give such information as I was able to obtain. The prison is 102 years old. It was built in an age when ideas of penal reform were different from today. It is set in a quiet, residential area in the large dormitory borough of Wandsworth. I do not think many people are much interested in what goes on behind the walls. I would say, in passing, that Sir James Patterson, who was himself a Prison Commissioner, said on one occasion that the only thing to do with the prison was to blow it up and start again elsewhere.

This is the receiving prison for most of the County of London. London as the capital city, like all other capital cities throughout the world, tends to attract the dregs of the underworld, the worst types. It is the recidivists, or repeaters as they are called in America—men who have previously served one prison sentence—who are received into Wandsworth. They are held there with men awaiting transfer to Dartmoor or Parkhurst. I was told that on some occasions there are actually more men held in Wandsworth Prison waiting to go to Dartmoor than the total prison population of Dartmoor itself.

Wandsworth has by far the largest prison population in the country. There is accommodation for 1,116 prisoners, but at present 1,660 are held there. As everybody who is associated with the prison has confirmed, the worst possible types of criminal are among the men serving detention. The position is even further worsened by the fact that aggressive psychopathic cases from many prisons, such as those at Maidstone, Canterbury and Bedford, are sent there for treatment, and very often they are the chief cause of trouble.

In addition, capital punishment is carried out at Wandsworth. I was told that sometimes there are as many as four men in condemned cells, all of which requires extra duties by the prison officers. I ask hon. Members to try to imagine the effect upon the grossly over-crowded prison of the men there knowing that four of their number are held for execution. It is well known that an almost hysterical psychological movement goes round a prison in such circumstances. That is another of the difficulties at the largest prison in the country which contains the worst types of offenders.

Yet, amid all those difficulties, the proportion of prison officers at Wandsworth is lower than the average for prisons throughout the land. Even on the figures given last Monday by the Home Secretary, figures which I shall query later, Wandsworth has fewer officers to look after a greater number of prisoners than any other prison in the country.

I must say that my visit was extremely depressing. One could not pretend that there could be any element of reform in that prison which is over 100 years old and which contains nearly twice as many prisoners as it held before the war. Of course, the prison was clean and tidy. Obviously the Governor was doing his best to cope with a difficult situation.

In fact, if the place were not blitzed from top to bottom every day with plenty of soap and water the conditions would quickly become intolerable. The medical officer of health there told the Select Committee which inquired into prisons in 1952 that the conditions were appalling. He said that the sanitary arrangements alone were completely inadequate.

When he made those statements there was a prison population of 1,420. Now the population is 1,660, and there have been even more than 1,700 prisoners held there at one time. At present, because of the overcrowding, over 640 prisoners sleep three to a cell in cells measuring 13 feet by 7. These were designed to hold one person and they have a cubic capacity of 723 cubic feet. Those cells now have to hold three people though the sanitary arrangements and conveniences such as shelves are designed for only one person.

Because of lack of staff a one-shift system is operated, though before the war the three-shift system was in force. This means that on a weekday prisoners are shut up between five and 5.30 p.m. until 7 a.m. the next day. Again, because of lack of accommodation and staff, only 18 to 23 hours a week are worked, which means that an average of three hours a day is spent at work. On Saturdays and Sundays the prisoners are shut up at 4.30 p.m. until 7 a.m. so that for no less than 14½ hours the alternative before the prisoner is either to spend the time in company with two others in a cell the size of a small box room designed to hold one or to spend it in what amounts to solitary confinement.

The staff come on duty at 7 a.m. and normally work through until 5.30 p.m., but nine of their number carry on until 9 p.m. on evening duty, so that those officers are on the go from 7 a.m. until 9 p.m. Four of the nine, in two pairs, are responsible for supervising the issue of cocoa to the whole of the prison population of over 1,600. At 9 p.m., when they go off duty, the prison is handed over to the care of nine elderly watchmen. It was suggested to me that some of them were not even physically fit. In charge of the watchmen there is one orderly officer properly trained in prison discipline.

At weekends this officer is an ordinary basic grade discipline officer, probably earning £8 15s. week. I seriously ask the Joint Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he thinks it right and adequate, from a security point of view, and whether it is fair to the officer concerned that he should have sole charge, on a wage of £8 15s. week, of a prison which is grossly overcrowded and which holds nearly twice as many prisoners as was intended.

I ask hon. Members to consider what would happen if an emergency were to occur at the weekend at two or three in the morning, if there was an outbreak of prisoners, a fire or other difficulty. At such a time a man rated at the lowest rate of pay in the service would, until he could get into touch with the Governor or someone else outside the prison, have to accept sole responsibility.

We visited the workshops which were grossly overcrowded. That is natural enough as there are well over 600 more prisoners than the place was designed to hold. In my opinion only the carpenter's shop contained any modern equipment, and there were 22 prisoners out of the 1,600 working there. The mailbag shop, where the incident occurred last Wednesday week, contained 260 prisoners working in a space which was designed to hold 100 before the war. Because of the type of work, prisoners of the lowest mental type are engaged on mailbags. In this shop, containing two and a half times as many bad types of prisoner as it was intended to contain, there were three discipline officers on duty with six instructors who, of course, were engaged in handing out and supervising the work.

I ask hon. Members to try to imagine the atmosphere there from the point of view of discipline and to consider whether it is fair either to the prisoners or to the officers who are responsible. The prisoners have been locked up in cells for 13½ hours—three tough types—probably complaining—together, or one prisoner has been locked up alone for 13½ hours. They are marched down to a grossly-overcrowded workshop where they are forced to work elbow to elbow. I saw lines of seated prisoners jammed tight against each other. Imagine the effect that must have upon prisoners. Imagine the chances of those three discipline officers maintaining discipline in that closely confined space if those 260 prisoners cared to make any demonstration. I go so far as to say that the discipline there is only maintained by the good will and co-operation of the prisoners.

In the recent incident two prisoners had been taken to the cells the day before, and half-a-dozen of their friends tried to "take it out" of the officer who had made the report to the Governor. Murder nearly took place then, but what would have happened had the whole 260 prisoners chosen to revolt at the same time? I am sure that before any possible help could have come from outside wholesale murder could have been committed in that shop. As I went round I sensed that the prisoners were in a subdued mood. It is also asking a great deal of the officers responsible for discipline to control prisoners in such circumstances, and it is quite apparent that only a severe code of discipline could maintain order.

I want to refer to the question of staff. Last Monday I asked the Home Secretary what number of officers were at Wandsworth. As a result of my conversations with the Governor and other officers I must say that the Home Secretary's answer was, at any rate, misleading. He said that on 25th May there were 133 discipline officers on the staff at Wandsworth. For the 26th, the day of the outbreak, the Governor could give a total of only 116 discipline officers. That figure was made up of 101 discipline officers, three chief officers, nine principal officers and three attached officers.

Nor were all those at the prison at the time. Twenty-three were on leave or on sick leave 35 were on such fixed duties as attendance at the gate and elsewhere and would not be available for any emergency, and 10 were on a Civil Defence exercise at the time. That leaves only 48 to look after over 1,600 prisoners—and even some of those 48 were probably outside the prison on escort duties of one kind or another.

The Home Secretary also said that at the prison there was a total staff of 210. The Governor could only show me 181 on the strength on the 26th May. He said that he could not account for the others. I think that some explanation is required from the Home Secretary as to why, in regard to a very dangerous and difficult prison, the figures he quoted were in excess of those which the Governor could give from his log book. All this is in a prison which before the war held 850 to 900 prisoners and had 80 to 100 officers and now has over 1,600 prisoners and 116 discipline officers on the strength. I was shown a letter which revealed that on 7th January last there were only 88 officers on duty.

Over the last two or three years officials of the Prison Officers' Association have continually made representations on these matters to the Prison Commissioners and to the Home Secretary. They have not had satisfaction. The Governor said that he was able to manage, but I received the impression that Mr. Lawton—a man I have known for many years, and a very efficient and loyal Governor—was backing up the Prison Commissioners. As captain of the ship, as it were, he said he was prepared to manage with the staff he had, but a very different view was held by staff representatives.

There is only one answer to the dreadful conditions prevailing in the prison at the moment. The long-term answer, of course, is to break up the prison and make other arrangements, but the short-term answer is to have a three-shift system. The Governor told the Select Committee two years ago that to do that he would need 100 more staff. With that system the prisoners could work longer hours, be usefully employed and have more freedom.

What are the prospects of increased staff? Let me quote some figures I have been given for 1953–54. Twenty thousand five hundred and twenty-six letters of inquiry were received from persons who thought that they might be interested in joining the prison service. Only 6,032 application forms were completed, which shows that those who inquired originally must have been deterred either by the rates of pay or the conditions of service. Of those 6,000-odd, appointments were offered to only 1,062. Only 940 actually joined for training and out of that number trained only 207 finally stayed in the service. In other words, less than 1 per cent. of those originally inquiring finally joined the staff.

In view of the terms of service which I had described to me at Wandsworth Prison that is not surprising. A man is expected to start at £7 2s. 6d. per week, rising by 5s. a week each year to a sum of £9 9s. per week after 20 years' service. Considering the conditions of full employment prevailing today one can scarcely expect men to join a service which is onerous, difficult and tough, and which tends to isolate him from the general community, for such a return.

Another suggestion made by the Governor was that 5 per cent. of the worst types of prisoners should be moved elsewhere. I am quite sure that he would be happier in that grossly-overcrowded prison if he could be relieved of his worst responsibilities, but no consideration appears to have been given to that suggestion.

What is the truth about the staffing and the overcrowding at Wandsworth Prison? Last month, in answer to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton), the Home Secretary said: I am not satisfied that any further increase is called for."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 31st May, 1954; Vol. 528, c. 58.] As I have already said, the Governor naturally supports that view—I think out of loyalty—but in contrast to it I would like to read to the House a letter sent on 3rd June—yesterday—from the Prison Officers' Association: Sir, I have been instructed by my Executive Committee to forward to you a resolution passed at a fully attended meeting of our Wandsworth branch on the evening of the 1st instant. The resolution is as follows:

'This meeting requests that, as a matter of serious urgency, a Commissioner shall attend this Prison to enquire into the staffing situation. It is also felt that the overcrowding at Wandsworth Prison, plus the under-staffing, should be brought to the attention of the Secretary of State by way of a deputation to him and that such a deputation should include two members of the Wandsworth Staff.'

A copy of this letter has today been delivered to the Prison Commission.

Yours faithfully,

H. CRONIN.

(General Secretary). Where does the truth lie? Who is right? The Home Secretary is satisfied that with a staff of 116 discipline officers no further increase is needed, yet the men actually engaged in looking after the discipline, at their meeting held on the Wednesday before the incident were talking about asking to be allowed to use tear gas to deal with prisoners in the event of an outbreak. As I said before, during the last 12 months there have been more assaults than in the previous two or three years. There was an act of gross violence last year against an officer named Newman, who was also injured on the last occasion.

Mr. Blow, the representative officer, has protested at every annual conference for the last three years against the conditions of service and the other appalling conditions there. What has been done? In my view, the Home Secretary is personally to blame for what happened last week and is personally to blame for the lack of attention given to the prison service throughout the country.

Wandsworth Prison is the largest prison in the country, and it has some of the most serious problems with which to contend. It is four miles from Whitehall. The Home Secretary has been in office for more than two and a half years, but he has never once visited the prison. This incident happened just over a week ago, and yet he has not been near the place.

As we all know, there is, in addition, dissatisfaction in the Civil Defence Service. There is the business which is going on at Coventry at the present time. All is not well with recruiting for Civil Defence. There is trouble with the fire brigade at Glamorgan, and there is trouble elsewhere. There is serious trouble in regard to the depletion of the police force through lack of recruitment.

All these things, including the prison service, are the direct responsibility of the Home Secretary. The right hon. and learned Gentleman is not even here today. One would be interested to know just where he is. While this trouble was occurring at Wandsworth, he was sitting on the Government Front Bench defending commercial television. We all know that Nero fiddled while Rome burned. The Home Secretary is apparently satisfied to sit twiddling a knob of a television set while all this trouble is occurring in the services for which he is directly responsible.

There is a slogan in the Tory Party, "If there is any trouble, send for Maxwell! Give him a brief, and, as a good lawyer, he will get us out of trouble!" The right hon. and learned Gentleman is continually sitting on the Government Front Bench doing jobs which are not his responsibility as Home Secretary. There is only one thing for him to do, and that is to tell the Prime Minister and his colleagues in the Cabinet that either he must be given enough time to get on with his own job or else he will resign.

There have been two debates on this subject in the past two years. There is not time to cover that ground now, but I would just point out that in the debate on 2nd March, 1953, the Home Secretary said that the problem of overcrowding in prisons could not be solved by new permanent building. He added: We must take other steps. What other steps has he taken? In the same debate he said: … we shall strain every nerve to relieve the congestion."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 2nd March, 1953; Vol. 512, c. 130–8.] Yet there are probably more prisoners in Wandsworth Prison today than when the right hon. and learned Gentleman uttered those words.

In the debate on 5th February this year the Joint Under-Secretary himself said that the Government: … will not regard the matter with complacency."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 5th February, 1954; Vol. 523, c. 771.] On 29th May, 1952, when my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Brixton tackled the Home Secretary on the question of under-staffing and overcrowding at Wandsworth Prison, the right hon. and learned Gentleman said: … I am taking up with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer as a matter of urgency the provision of staffs in the prisons adequate to the present situation."ߞ[OFFICIAL REPORT, 29th May, 1952; Vol. 501, c. 1635.] Since then, a theoretical five have been added to the staff and more than 200 prisoners have been added to the prison complement.

In those two debates seven separate solutions were suggested by hon. Members who have studied the subject and have some knowledge of what is required in our prisons, including Wandsworth. There is not time to list them now, but the Joint Under-Secretary ought to know the seven solutions, all of which were reasonable, sensible, and adequate to the purpose of helping to relieve congestion. It is up to the Joint Under-Secretary to say what he and the Minister have been doing about the matter.

In addition to the seven solutions suggested by hon. Members, the Governor of the prison has made two suggestions, namely that the worst types should be removed to another security prison, having regard to the difficult situation at Wandsworth, and that psychopathic cases should not be sent to Wandsworth.

Speaking at one of his annual conferences, Mr. Blow said that at Wandsworth they were sitting on top of a volcano. Having examined the facts, the incident last week seems to me to have been just a tiny blow-off. If the whole of the Vesuvius were to go into eruption, it would be catastrophic. That is the situation at Wandsworth. The Home Secretary should get down to the task of solving some of these problems, at any rate those which do not require large sums of money to be spent at the present time.

I have said that last year there were 20,000 people who were willing to serve in the prison service, but, finally, the right hon. and gallant Gentleman recruited only 207. Unless something is done, there will be further serious troubles, if not at Wandsworth at least at some other local prison which may be equally overcrowded. I say to the Home Secretary—I am sorry that he is not here today; I gave notice last night that I should make these remarks—that he should either get down to the job or resign.

1.36 p.m.

Mr. Victor Yates (Birmingham, Ladywood)

My hon. Friend the Member for Wandsworth, Central (Mr. Adams) has raised a very grave matter. In doing so, he renders a great service not only to prisoners and prison officers, but also to the whole community. I agree with him that it is most unfortunate that the Home Secretary himself is not here today. I cannot think of any incident which has occurred in connection with prisons during the last 20 years which is of greater importance than the one we are discussing today.

Generally speaking, I agree with the impressions which my hon. Friend has conveyed to the House. It was remarkable that yesterday we had absolutely clear and unmistakable evidence that the prison officers themselves have placed before the Governor and the Prison Commissioners their views about this situation. This was not something that happened a few months ago. Mr. Blow himself said that the prison officers had been expecting the situation to arise for the past three years. That is very serious.

The prison officers have given warnings in their own magazine. In a previous speech in the House, I referred to the prison officers' magazine of September, 1952, in which this statement appeared: Have we to wait until something so serious occurs inside one of our prisons that the public is aroused from its indifference and clamours for something to be done? The magazine also contained this statement: We have no wish to be alarmists. What we do emphatically assert, however, is that in the present state of the prison service the ingredients for transforming an ordinary situation into one which contains danger to life, limb and property are disturbingly near to hand. That was in September, 1952.

The Select Committee on Estimates, with which I have the honour to be associated, presented a Report, and the Home Secretary had a very clear indication of what the Select Committee thought after visiting prisons and observing the very serious conditions operating in them.

I had been to Wandsworth Prison before my visit yesterday. As never before, when I passed through the gates of Wandsworth Prison yesterday I realised that it was a dark, dreary, comfortless abode of wretchedness, built, as my hon. Friend said, more than 100 years ago, a relic of the days of bitter punishment. Coming outside again, I looked at the gaol and saw that it was nothing more or less than a symbol of terrifying isolation. There is no possibility of any constructive programme. I agree that Mr. Lawton, the Governor, is trying to do his best, according to his lights, but I am not sure that his lights are too good. I think they are rather dim.

The job of a prison officer is absolutely impossible and almost intolerable. He is expected not only to guard the prisoners, but to guide and counsel them, which is quite impossible in present circumstances. It was obvious to us as we went round the prison that the officers are unhappy because they cannot really do their jobs. If we want to reform prisoners we have to reach their hearts, but how can we do so with these impossible buildings and intolerable conditions?

This prison is a relic of the old conception. In the old days, prisoners suffered a different kind of punishment, but they never had to tolerate the over-crowded conditions of the present prisoners at Wandsworth. There are 647 prisoners sleeping three in a cell. Yesterday, I stood with my hon. Friend on a landing, on both sides of which were cells, numbering 69, and for which there were only two lavatories. That is a most disgraceful and shocking state of affairs. On the side of the landing where I stood there were 20 cells which had three men in each, and I do not know how many there were on the other side.

The majority of the 1,674 men who are there at the moment are locked up for 14 hours a day. There is no possibility of their getting out. Even the patrolmen could not unlock the doors. If a man were suffering seriously from diarrhoea he could not get out. Prison officers say that conditions in that prison in the morning, when slopping out takes place, are absolutely shocking, and impossible for the public to conceive. I am told that the stench in the morning is almost unbearable.

What could be worse than for new officers to encounter such conditions? What could be more calculated to turn them away? In these cells, which were built for one prisoner but now contain three, there are tiny shutters of glass. A prisoner not only enters Wandsworth with a grievance against society because he has lost his freedom, but is placed in conditions which are a danger to his health, apart from their effect upon his mental condition.

Is it not obvious that the men are experiencing a torture which did not occur in former days? The prisoners are allowed out of their cells after having been in for 14 hours each weekday and 15 hours on Saturdays and Sundays. At weekends there ought to be some kind of recreation, but for these men there is nothing at all. The only form of recreation they are allowed is one hour's walk round the grounds—half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the afternoon. That is the only time in which they are allowed to talk about anything they want to.

In the workshops the men work elbow to elbow. That applies not only to Wandsworth Prison but to other local prisons; similar conditions operated quite recently in Birmingham. I should like the Minister to confirm how many men are working on mailbags. I should say that they number anything between 500 and 600. In the shop where the difficulty occurred men were compelled to work with their elbows bumping into each other. Prison officers say quite frankly that even the prisoners themselves quarrel because of this crowding. On top of that, they are allowed to talk only about their work.

I should like the Joint Under-Secretary to ask the Home Secretary to visit the workshops at Wandsworth. I want to give the House my impression of them. I went there in what may have been a period of calm after the storm, but even so there was something about the atmosphere which frightened me. It was an atmosphere of fear. I think my hon. Friend will agree with me that that was obvious when we entered the workshop, where the men were working but not talking. The Governor may say that prisoners are allowed to talk about their work, but he is bound by the Standing Orders of the Prison Commissioners.

I can appreciate the point of view of prison officers who say, as they said to us, that if we allow men to talk while they are working in these conditions there will be bedlam. That is because there are not sufficient officers to look after the men. In my view the prison officers have been conservative in their estimate of their requirements, and the prison Governor is far behind in his estimate of the number required to man this prison. From casual talks to the prisoners and staff I discovered that one of the deep-seated grievances of the men is the fact that they are locked up for so many hours and a silence is imposed upon them when they are let out into the workshops, unless their talk is strictly related to their work.

The Home Secretary and the Prison Commissioners should give serious consideration to abolishing what seems to me to be unintelligent disciplinary measures. We must seek to provide a community existence for these people. I cannot help but express my appreciation at the way in which prison officers try to do their work. I saw one of those who were in charge of the store which was barricaded. He had a cut on his face. I can appreciate his anxiety about what ought to be done.

It is natural for a prison officer to feel that the prisoners are in the wrong and ought never to be allowed to do this or that. Because of the strict rules, prisoners take it out of the officers for every grievance they feel. Not only was I aware of the intense silence in the workshops, but I saw the worried looks on the faces of the prison officers. These men have to do a job which originally they were not expected to do. They were not expected to guard and guide men in such conditions.

Under those hazards, the ordinary prison officer is paid £7 2s. 6d. a week. These men are grossly underpaid. If we want a good prison service we must pay for the job, and the worse the conditions imposed the heavier the price we shall have to pay. That is what the Select Committee felt when it considered the matter. There were arguments about whether the prison officer's job is as important and onerous as that of a policeman. At present, in the conditions under which they are working, I think it ranks even higher.

It is true that discipline is maintained, but I say that it is enforced. The good will of the prisoner has gone and something must be done to restore it. If we are to start to rule by methods of force, it will be a sad day for us.

The most grave impression which I have about this prison is that the inmates are being trained to become worse criminals because of the conditions. They are almost graduating in these conditions to become even worse criminals. It is not bars and that kind of treatment which is required today. The men must be guarded and guided and counselled by brains. That is what is needed today.

The Home Secretary's immediate duty is to remove the tension which obviously exists between the prison officer and the prisoner as a result of these most unfortunate conditions. It is no use the right hon. and learned Gentleman saying, "I am doing all that I can." Something more must be done at once. We must find a way to reduce the number of prisoners and to increase the staff, and we must remove the volcano. Every prison officer today is sitting on a volcano, and there is no safety valve. It is the Home Secretary's duty, in face of the warning which has been given, to provide the safety valve.

The Governor told me that every prisoner had access to him and that each day he interviews perhaps 70 men who complain to him. He is spending a lot of time doing that. It seems to me that he needs some means whereby the feeling which exists inside the workshop can be made known to him. We need an intelligent plan to remove the deep-seated grievances of those prisoners and officers.

1.54 p.m.

The Joint Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Sir Hugh Lucas-Tooth)

No one will complain that this subject has been raised today, for it is a matter which has attracted a good deal of public attention, and I am grateful for the opportunity of saying something about it. I must say, however, that some of the words of the hon. Member for Wandsworth, Central (Mr. Adams) were unfortunate. I do not think the situation will be improved through this question being discussed in a controversial and almost political manner, and I do not think it will do any good to make abusive remarks about my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary.

The hon. Member said that the Home Secretary had misled the House. I do not want to follow him in all the things he said, but perhaps I may do so in one particular. The hon. Member referred to the figure of 207 as being the number of successful recruits last year. In fact, that is the net increase in the number of recruits, so that the figure proves precisely the opposite to that which he suggested.

Mr. Adams

I said precisely what the hon. Member has said—the net increase, the number remaining on the staff, was 207.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

The hon. Member did not give that impression. His remarks were definitely misleading, and when he accuses my right hon. and learned Friend of misleading the House. I can well leave it to hon. Members to judge between him and the Home Secretary.

Lieut.-Colonel Marcus Lipton (Brixton)

It is more dangerous when the Home Secretary misleads.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

It is impossible to be complacent about conditions in Wandsworth Prison, and it is right that I should try to set before the House the basic facts of the situation. On 2nd June there were 1,116 cells and 1,615 prisoners. That involved 647 prisoners being three in a cell—a state of affairs which no one would regard as other than deplorable. The figures show that Wandsworth is unique in size among our prisons. Except for the 80 prisoners in the corrective training allocation centre, all the prisoners are men with previous criminal records. There are no star prisoners.

Every kind of sentence is being served there. There are some short-term "ordinaries," as they are called; there are some long-term prisoners waiting to go to Dartmoor; and there are some preventive detention prisoners undergoing the first stage of their sentence. This is the peculiar difficulty of all local prisons, but it reaches its extreme at Wandsworth on account of the great numbers there. The variety in the length of sentence itself presents difficulties—for instance, administrative difficulties in arranging work for the prisoners to do. It is extremely unsettling to those who have longer sentences that there should be a constant coming and going of those who are there for only a short time.

Moreover, the conditions in Wandsworth are peculiarly favourable to the existence of gangs. The prisoners are all recidivists. They are drawn from the densely-populated area of South London and the size of the prison and the number of prisoners is very great. It follows that at any time there are a considerable number of regular prisoners who have known each other outside the prison, and they will naturally tend to form gangs within the prison. That makes maintenance of discipline in the prison difficult, and these gangs are apt to resent action being taken against any of their number by a member of the disciplinary staff or, indeed, anything of the same kind by other prisoners. Of course, the great overcrowding in Wandsworth facilitates the activities of these gangs. It helps communication to take place, and makes it more difficult to split them up. Indeed, the general overcrowding in prisons throughout the country leads to that result.

Mr. W. R. Williams (Droylsden)

I was in Wandsworth, I think in 1949, when the conditions were very bad indeed. Would the hon. Gentleman say what has been done since then to relieve the congestion?

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

I was dealing with the numbers of prisoners and the immediate circumstances there, and I have much more to say. I want now to say a word about the workshops. There is a great variety of workshops in the prison:—the tailor's shop with 148 prisoners; the carpenter's shop, with 20; the tailoring repairs shop with 155; the brush shop with 80; the mailbag, shoe and sack shop with 263; the pouch shop with 142; and the second clog and mailbag shop with 143. Besides those shops there are the kitchen, laundry, library, stores, works, and so on.

The hon. Member for Ladywood (Mr. Yates) very fairly commented on the large proportion of work being done in the mailbag shop, and there has been adverse comment upon it outside. I would point out that in Wandsworth there is a special need for an industry that has three qualities. In the first place, it must provide continuous work; in the second place, the work must be easily taught and supervised; and thirdly it must not require a high standard of intelligence or dexterity. That is because of the kind of population within the prison and because many of the prisoners there are serving relatively short sentences.

The only industry that caters for these needs is that carried on in the mailbag shop. I do not say that it is ideal. No one could say it is ideal. I was in the shop myself this morning, so I can provide more recent first-hand evidence than the two hon. Members. On the other hand, I think they will agree that it is at any rate better than idleness, and no one so far has suggested any alternative.

I am sure that the hon. Member for Wandsworth, Central will agree that the area of the prison is one that presents peculiar difficulties, because it is impossible to expand the prison as it is situated. If we were to do any other building we could do it only by taking ground urgently needed for other purposes such as exercise. That is a peculiar difficulty we are up against there.

Mr. W. R. Williams

We want a new building altogether.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

A new building altogether would have to be large enough to house a very large number of prisoners. We are, of course, going ahead with the new building programme. We debated that subject in the House recently, and it is outside the bounds of this debate. I agree that the ultimate solution is the provision of accommodation elsewhere, but accepting the position at Wandsworth as it is, that is the peculiar difficulty that we are up against. There is very great overcrowding and there is no easy solution. We cannot overflow elsewhere, because it is not only Wandsworth that is overcrowded. Manchester, Liverpool, Durham and the other local prisons are, too.

I can assure the hon. Member who suggested that psychopathic cases are sent to Wandsworth for treatment that that is not so. They are returned there only in the event of their being found not suitable for treatment in other prisons.

Mr. Adams

Is the Joint Under-Secretary of State saying then that the chief medical officer who gave evidence to the Select Committee on Estimates was not saying the right thing?

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

I have not the advantage of having before me now any statement by that officer. If the hon. Member will draw my attention to any particular point I will certainly look into it and let him know about it. Personally, I think that the situation in Wandsworth is a tribute to all concerned, to the Governor and to his staff. The number of incidents there is small, and when incidents have occurred there has been very quick control indeed.

Mr. Adams

The hon. Gentleman has doubted my word on more than one matter, and so I must draw his attention to the Report of the Select Committee on Estimates, of which I have a copy here. I refer the hon. Gentleman to page 60. The Principal Medical Officer was asked if he could not be relieved of some of the worst cases, and he replied; We might, but, unfortunately, we have got to stick to our worst people; nobody else will have them. They send them from other prisons on that account. We get the roughnecks from Winchester, Bedford, Maidstone and Canterbury. They are sent here because there is a full-time psychiatric opinion here. Either that is true or it is not. All the facts I have quoted today have been based on information of this kind from reliable people, and I strongly resent the remarks of the hon. Gentleman.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

I appreciate that the hon. Member resents my remarks, but I am advised that psychopaths are sent to Wandsworth only for treatment as recalcitrants when they are unable to profit by the training provided elsewhere.

Mr. Adams

Is not that exactly the same thing? It is the same thing.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

Those are the circumstances in which they are sent back.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

How many psychopathic cases are there now?

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

If the hon. and gallant Gentleman will put that question on the Order Paper I will give him an answer.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

The hon. Gentleman does not know. He is answering a debate and does not know.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

I come now to the staff. Those who were directly affected by the recent incident I shall come to later. First, may I say something about what is called the complement of staff. The complement means the establishment laid down of those who may be taken on the staff. The complement at Wandsworth is the Governor and three Assistant Governors; 137 officers of all ranks on the disciplinary staff. including 120 of the basic grade of disciplinary officer; and 67 specialist officers, who of course, have also had disciplinary training.

At present, all but three of the disciplinary staff are in post. There was a recent increase—I think it took effect in March—of six, that is to say, five of the basic grade and one senior officer. I do not remember his grade offhand. Of that increase, three have been made good, and the remaining three will be made good shortly, no doubt. All but two of the specialist staff—both hospital staff—are in post. The shortage is on account of the recent increase in the complement.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

According to the Home Secretary last Monday, there are 77 specialists in post.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

I have the figure of 67.

Mr. Adams

Which is right?

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

I will have the matter checked, and let the hon. Member know. There is a good deal of arithmetic here. The figure I have here is 67. In addition to the officers I have mentioned, there are 16 officers under instruction.

The first question that arises is whether there is an adequate complement. It has recently been reviewed and increased, as I have said. I should say that whenever the staff is reviewed the Prison Officers' Association is consulted. In fact, at the recent review, I am informed, the Prison Officers' Association asked for 125 officers of the basic grade, as compared with the 120 which was allowed and 115 which had been the previous complement. There is not a very great deal, therefore, in the figures. The Commissioners judged the figure of 120 to be adequate, and I can tell the House that my right hon. and learned Friend agrees with the Commissioners that that is so.

The point has been made that the ratio of officers to prisoners is 1 in 12 in the case of Wandsworth, as compared with 1 in 8 in all single-shift prisons in the country. The reason for the difference is, of course, the size of Wandsworth Prison. It must be remembered that the duties of these officers are manifold—here are landing officers, officers required for the supervision of labour, as instructors, for manning fixed posts such as the gate, and for reception. It will clearly be seen that in a very large prison there is considerable economy because we do not require more men to man the fixed posts in a large prison than we do in a small one; there is, naturally, a considerable economy.

In the case of Wandsworth, there is very little need for escort duty, whereas in the majority of the smaller prisons there is a very heavy demand on officers for that duty. I can tell the House that the arrangement is such that there are 24 officers who are immediately available at any time and at any point within the prison, without prejudicing in any way the duties which are being carried on by officers elsewhere in the prison.

Mr. Adams

As a result of my visit yesterday, I strongly dispute any such figure.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

That is the figure I was given. I asked the Governor this morning, and I understand that that figure is correct.

The hon. Member for Ladywood referred to the pay of officers. This is a matter which is dealt with by the Whitley Council machinery, and I think it best that it should be so dealt with and not by argument here. I do not think that this is a matter which we should argue across the Floor of the House until, at any rate, that machinery has shown itself inadequate for the purpose.

Mr. W. R. Williams

Is it to be assumed from what the Minister is saying that there is agreement on the Whitley Council about the standards of pay of prison officers?

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

I am not saying that there is agreement or disagreement. I am saying that the Whitley Council machinery is there. I understand that it is working perfectly smoothly and, therefore, I do not think it would be desirable to discuss questions of pay across the Floor of the House. I agree that the hon. Gentleman is quite entitled to do so, but I think the House will be with me on such a question as this.

The resolution to which the hon. Member for Wandsworth, Central referred—from the Wandsworth Branch of the Prison Officers' Association—came in yesterday. It has been in my right hon. and learned Friend's hands for less than 24 hours, and I can assure the hon. Member that it is receiving most urgent attention, but I cannot give him an answer to that point in so short a time.

I should like to say a word about understaffing generally. The complement allows for a certain proportion of absentees at any given time. At Wandsworth, the complement of officers of the basic grade is 120 and that allows for 35 being non-available at any given time owing to leave, sickness, and so on. I have the figure for 2nd June, which shows 27 as not available but, in fact, there were six who had been detached from duty elsewhere, so that the actual deficiency was 21. That is 14 better than that allowed for on the complement. I think that the figures which were referred to by the hon. Member will show that there was no deficiency on the date of the incident.

As regards the introduction of the three-shift system, I can tell the House that this has already been done in central prisons, except Dartmoor, and in the regional and corrective training prisons and Young Prisoners' Centre. Its establishment in Dartmoor and six other prisons is in the programme for the current year.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Not Wandsworth?

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

Every effort will be made to go ahead with this as quickly as possible. Obviously, this is not a policy which can be implemented very quickly.

Mr. Yates

Do I understand the hon. Gentleman to say that there was no deficiency in staff on the day of the incident? Surely that is contrary to all the facts.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

I said that the complement allows for 35 being away, so on the day in question, taking that into account, there was not a deficiency.

I should now like to say a word about the recent disturbance. My right hon. and learned Friend has answered Questions in the House on this subject recently and, as the House knows, proceedings are being taken against certain of the prisoners who were involved. The matter is, therefore, so far as they are concerned, sub judice and it would be quite improper for me to say anything which might prejudge the issue, or which might even appear to do so. I can, however, say that at no time during the incident was there any general threat to discipline and good order in the prison. The remainder of the prison remained perfectly quiet.

There are two workshops contiguous to the workshop in which the incident occurred, and they both continued to work as if nothing untoward was happening throughout the whole period. In the workshop itself there were 260 men, who had available dangerous weapons such as hammers, knives and marlin spikes, which, no doubt, the hon. Members saw on their visit. Two hundred and fifty of the men made no attempt to use these weapons in spite of what was going on and notwithstanding that they had them readily available to hand. On the contrary, they left the workshop in orderly fashion.

Twenty-one officers were injured, 10 of them so as to need to be sent to hospital for treatment. Four more officers were injured in the incidents which took place subsequently. These four and 11 of the 21 are now back at duty. The injuries consisted of cuts, bruises and lacerations. No bones were broken. In one case there was doubt as to whether an officer had not sustained a fractured skull, but I am assured there is no question that he has not done so. I am sure the House would wish me to pay tribute to the courage and skill with which the officers dealt with a very nasty situation.

I may be asked how prisoners can organise attacks of this kind. The opportunities are freely available in a prison such as Wandsworth. Association, periods of exercise and periods when men are three in a cell all provide opportunity for planning this kind of thing. I think the House would agree that it is unthinkable that we should even contemplate abolishing association or exercise; and as regards having men three in a cell, unfortunately, in the meantime, it is impossible for us to abolish that. The Commissioners are satisfied that discipline at Wandsworth is firm but fair. That certainly accords with my own view, having been there not only today, but having paid an extended visit a month or two ago.

I should like to read a passage from the report of the Visiting Committee: The Committee notes that the standard of discipline in the prison has been maintained at a very high level despite the high population and overcrowding. Although the number of serious offences committed has risen, the members of the Committee find it remarkable that of an average population of 1,686 there have been in a whole year only 71 cases of offences serious enough to be reported to them. Having in mind the difficult types of prisoners at Wandsworth and the fact that they are all recidivists we feel that this reflects great credit upon the Governor and his staff. The standard of security at Wandsworth is in our opinion excellent. While there were 11 cases of prisoners making attempts to escape from the prison during 1953, no prisoner has succeeded in doing so for some four years. That is a fine tribute to those who are working at the prison and indicates that in spite of incidents such as that which occurred, the general level of discipline is sound.

The 71 cases of offences last year, involving 78 prisoners, included one case of gross personal violence against an officer. There were 18 such cases in all the prisons of the country. The figure of 71 included also 18 cases of assault or attempted assault on officers, and nine cases of assault on prisoners.

I have exceeded the time allotted to me but I have tried to deal with the numerous points which were raised and to give a picture of the position in Wandsworth. It is certainly not a position which anyone would regard with complacency. I assure the House that the Government do not do that. It is our intention to do our utmost to improve the situation in the ways I have indicated. In the meantime, I think it is right that we should indicate from the House that those on the spot—the Governor and his staff—are doing a good job of work and that we feel confidence in them.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Will the hon. Gentleman ask the Home Secretary, in view of the great divergency of opinion as to the facts, to consider the appointment of an independent inquiry into conditions at Wandsworth? It looks very much as if nothing is being done and that there may be a repetition. Let us have an independent inquiry into the conditions in Wandsworth. Will the hon. Gentleman consider that?

Hon. Members

Answer.

Sir H. Lucas-Tooth

I will always consider anything.