HC Deb 27 July 1954 vol 531 cc397-401

Lords Amendment: In page 7, line 40, leave out "the landlord shall carry out" and insert: the terms mentioned in subsection (1) of the last foregoing section shall include the carrying out of

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

I beg to move, "That this House does agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This is the third of the series of Amendments on initial repairs and the effect is to make the term "initial repairs" cover those carried out either by the landlord or by the tenant.

Lords Amendment: In page 8, line 1, at end insert: and as respects which it has been agreed or determined as aforesaid that they are to be carried out by the landlord

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This is the fourth of the series of Amendments, and it limits the amount of the "payment for accrued tenant's repairs" which the landlord is entitled to recover from the tenant to the reasonable cost of such of the repairs as the landlord, and not the tenant, is to carry out.

Lords Amendment: In page 8, line 11, to leave out subsection (3).

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This is the fifth of the series of Amendments on the subject of initial repairs. The subsection which this Amendment leaves out provides for a landlord and a tenant agreeing among themselves that the initial repairs should be carried out by the tenant, and in such cases the repairs are referred to as "tenant's initial repairs." This subsection becomes unnecessary in the new scheme.

Mr. Hale

Why is it unnecessary? I am worried about it. This subsection makes the thing perfectly clear. By leaving it out we leave out all the clarity.

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

The subsection which we propose to leave out provides for the landlord and the tenant agreeing among themselves the initial repairs to be carried out by the tenant, and in that case the repairs are referred to as the "tenant's initial repairs." That seems unnecessary under the scheme that I have explained to the House.

Mr. Hale

Subsection (3) says: Nothing in subsection (1) of this section shall be construed as preventing the making of an agreement between the landlord and the tenant for the carrying out by the tenant at his own expense of repairs (hereinafter referred to as "tenant's initial repairs") specified in the agreement. If the words in brackets were misleading we could leave them out, but it would still say that subsection (1) would preclude an agreement being made whereby the tenant did his own repairs, which is the thing he may want to do. It seems to me that the subsection was put in for a purpose. It was put in presumably because the Parliamentary draftsman thought that it was possible there was something under subsection (1) which might induce the courts to say that the tenant could not do this by agreement and at his own expense. Therefore, the subsection was put in. Now it is to be left out, and we are asking why it is to be left out. What has happened to subsection (1), which now makes it necessary to leave out subsection (3)? In other words, what has happened which makes this subsection so drafted that it cannot be construed as preventing the making of such an agreement? We ought to have an explanation as to why this useful subsection (3) has been left out.

Sir F. Soskice

May I press the Home Secretary or the Solicitor-General for a reply to what seems a very reasonable request? It is particularly unfortunate that when a perfectly courteous question is addressed to both Ministers both should sit immobile without any indication of a reply.

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

I am sorry if we should appear to be discourteous, but we have established the rule rather strictly not to speak except by leave. My right hon. and learned Friend will deal with the point.

Mr. Hayman

To a layman, the subsection which it is now proposed to leave out seems sensible and seems to give some guidance to the tenant as to whether he might be able to do the job himself.

The Solicitor-General

The subsection is unnecessary because of an Amendment to which we have already agreed. It provides that the notice will state what initial repairs are to be carried out by the landlord and the tenant, and which by the landlord and which by the tenant. Following upon that, other matters dealt with in the notice can be either agreed upon automatically or referred to the court. That being so, it is not necessary now to have a special provision for agreement, because agreement becomes part of the general agreement—

Notice taken that 40 Members were not present; House counted, and 40 Members being present—

Lords Amendment: In page 8, line 30, at the end, insert: in so far as they are to be carried out by the landlord; ".

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This is the sixth of the series of Amendments on initial repairs. The landlord has to include in his proposals an estimate of the cost of initial repairs. The Amendment secures that the estimate is to cover only the initial repairs which the landlord has to carry out.

Lords Amendment: In page 8, line 33, leave out from the first "the" to the end of line 34, and insert: amount of each instalment (subject to any necessary reduction of the last), the time at which the first is to be payable and the frequency of the instalments;".

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment was moved by the Government in Committee in another place and is a drafting Amendment.

Lords Amendment: In page 8, line 38, leave out "or tenant's initial repairs."

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This is the seventh of the series of Amendments. The words to be left out become unnecessary as the term "initial repairs" now covers repairs to be carried out by either the landlord or the tenant.

Lords Amendment: In page 8, line 40, after "landlord" insert "or the tenant."

Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This is the eighth of the series. It amends Clause 8 (6), the subsection which introduces the Second Schedule. It is necessary because the Schedule is being widened by a later Amendment in page 55, line 30, to cover cases in which the tenant has failed to carry out the initial repairs which he has agreed to do. At present the Schedule applies only where the landlord fails to carry out the initial repairs.

Sir F. Soskice

I intervene to remind the Home Secretary that we are looking forward to some explanation of the further Amendment to which he referred.

11.30 p.m.