HC Deb 27 January 1954 vol 522 cc1737-41
40. Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General whether he will make a statement about the recent theft of a Post Office van in Waltham stow, and whether he will arrange for an immediate and complete overhaul of existing security arrangements in the postal services.

45. Mr. Crouch

asked the Assistant Postmaster-Generalif he will take more positive precautions to prevent mail robberies.

Mr. Gammans

The facts are that a Post Office van standing outside the Walthamstow Sub-District Sorting Office last Friday, with all doors locked, was driven away during the momentary absence of the driver and guard after the driver's door had been opened, apparently with a false key. The van was at once pursued, and abandoned by the thieves within a matter of minutes, but they had succeeded in stealing part of the contents valued at £4,700 out of a total of nearly £10,000. This case of highway robbery is under investigation by the police in association with the Investigation Branch of the Post Office. In answer to the second part of the Question, the problem of safeguarding the mails has been under continuous review for the past 20 months by a Committee of experts who have already been responsible, in consultation with the police and other authorities concerned, for the introduction of many useful new safeguards.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that, despite his frequent promises to tighten things up, public confidence in the security of the postal services has never been lower than it is today? Even the Queen's personal mail is being tampered with, and the other day a newspaperman wandered all over Mount Pleasant without being challenged. Will the Assistant Postmaster-General ask his noble Friend either to take effective action to remedy this lamentable laxity or to make way for someone who will?

Mr. Gammans

I think the hon. Gentleman is exaggerating when he says that confidence in the postal service has never been lower than it is today. What we have to remember is that this is a case of highway robbery, and in the general crime wave now assailing this country the Post Office cannot be expected to be exempt from it.

Mr. Crouch

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is considerable alarm throughout the country about these continual mail robberies and that the public are looking for more effective action than has been taken up to now? We are aware that he cannot disclose the methods which are being used, but will he put a stop to these thefts at once?

Mr. Gammans

Merely because the Post Office is asked Questions in this House it does not follow that Post Office robberies are more serious than any other robberies. All other public utilities suffer equally from crimes of this type.

Mr. H. Morrison

Is it not the case that there has been a marked tendency for mail robberies to increase since this Government came into office? Ought not the Postmaster-General to wake up and see what he can do about this matter, instead of letting it go on? Will the hon. Gentleman agree that it is quite possible that, as the mind of the Post Office has been diverted to commercial television as a result of a small pressure group opposite, it is likely that they have not the time to look after the mail?

Mr. Gammans

The right hon Gentleman should be a bit more sure of his facts before making the dogmatic statement which he made at the beginning of his supplementary question. The fact is that Post Office robberies and losses have gone down very considerably as compared with five years ago.

Mr. Renton

Is not the serious point about the Walthamstow case that a large amount of public money in the form of cash was stolen from a van which was temporarily unattended? Will the Minister ensure that public cash, when gathered together in large quantities—as it must be by the Past Office from time to time—is always under somebody's care and supervision?

Mr. Gammans

The investigations into this case have not been completed. One of the questions which has to be further investigated is the very point raised by my hon. Friend.

Mr. I. O. Thomas

Will the Minister say that whilst those further investigations are proceeding the elementary precaution will be taken, without delay—at least in the case of vans which are carrying thousands of pounds—of seeing that these vans are manned by two persons, so that when one of them is away in the building on other duties the van is not left unattended and merely an invitation to anybody who may be knocking about to run away with it?

Mr. Gammans

This particular van was manned by two persons.

41. Mr. Russell

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what steps have been taken to increase the protection of mail vans in transit; and what instructions are given to the drivers to immobilise them when left unattended.

Mr. Gammans

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I have just given to the hon. and gallant Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton). On the second part of the Question, I am not prepared to disclose what instructions are given to drivers, but my hon. Friend may Test assured that they are quite specific.

Mr. Russell

Can the Minister say whether the van referred to in the previous Question was capable of being immobilised? Does he not realise that during the war most car owners were asked to immobilise their cars? Would not this be an obvious measure to take to prevent vans being driven away?

Mr. Gammans

This van was more than immobilised. It was locked.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Is it not quite obvious that the experts who are at present advising the Postmaster-General on general security arrangements are not quite so expert as those who are advising the robbers?

Mr. Ian Harvey

In view, of the allegations made from the Front Bench opposite, is it not significant that this robbery took place in Walthamstow?

43. Mr. Crouch

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General the number of mail robberies which have occurred in London; and the number in the provinces during each of the last two years.

Mr. Gammans

The numbers or robberies as such are not available, but, out of roughly 350 million bags in transit, 720 bags were recorded as missing during the year ended 31st December, 1953. In 1952 the figure was 660, and in the preceding year 760.

Mr. M. Stewart

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that all that these robbers are doing is to divert public funds to private profits? They are following the example set them by the Government.

Mr. Crouch

In reply to a supplementary question a moment ago my hon. Friend said that there had been a decrease in the number of mail robberies, but according to his figures there has been an increase in the number of bags missing. Can he tell me the difference between missing bags and stolen bags?

Mr. Gammans

The right hon. Member for Lewisham, South (Mr. H. Morrison) alleged that under this Government more mail had been lost than before. I wished to assure him that that was not true.

44. Mr. Crouch

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he will provide mail van drivers with a mate when conveying valuable mail.

Mr. Gammans

It would be contrary to the public interest for me to disclose under what circumstances a mate is carried on postal vans.

Mr. Crouch

My hon. Friend said that there was a mate in the van from which the robbery took place on Friday. I understood that the purpose of the mate was to stay in the van whilst the driver left. Surely my hon. Friend is not going to suggest that a van could be stolen if the mate were sitting in it?

Mr. Gammans

That is the very point which, as I assured my hon. Friend just now, was under investigation.