§ 46. Mr. Bellengerasked the Prime Minister whether he will define the rule governing the access to Departmental or Cabinet papers by former Ministers of the Crown.
§ The Prime MinisterSo much general agreement was expressed on Tuesday that there is little for me to add. The rule is that a former Minister may refresh his memory of any Cabinet documents which were issued to him while in office.
§ Mr. H. MorrisonOr Departmental papers?
§ The Prime MinisterThere is no fixed rule about Departmental documents, but, especially where the matter enters the field of political controversy, it would certainly be usual to give similar facilities in regard to Departmental documents seen by a Minister or used by him during his period of office. I may say that should any disagreement occur at any time on a Departmental issue the Prime Minister of the day, who is in charge of the Administration, should certainly be appealed to.
§ Mr. BellengerI thank the right hon. Gentleman for that answer, but is he not aware that my right hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) was denied access to a Departmental document by a permanent official? Does he not deprecate that?
§ The Prime MinisterI have looked into that in some detail, and I have written to the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) a very lengthy letter, enclosing a bundle of documents. What happened was that there was a misunderstanding. There is no question that he had a right of access to the document in question, nor was it ever intended to deny it, nor was there any need to do so. So far as I can see it, this document 1364 was utterly without significance. Had he said on the telephone, "I wish to see the document" and requested to see it, he would have been invited to come and see it at the earliest possible convenience.
§ Mr. MorrisonWhat did he say on the telephone?
§ The Prime MinisterI do not know what the said; but it was a bona fide misunderstanding. They told him there was nothing in the document, and they thought he did not insist on any sudden appointment being made to see it. I might explain that it is not customary to circulate a document. Access is given at the office, because when we are in private life we may not all have facilities for keeping documents. I think that this is much the best way to do it. But he had an absolute right to see that document and it was not intended in any way to challenge that right.
§ Mr. MorrisonI am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for that assurance which, I think, now puts us right. I would only ask him whether he does not recall that in the long years in which he was Minister, and in the long years in which he was an ex-Minister, he himself has been very active in asserting his right to Departmental documents, and whether he will see that he will at leastgive us the same rights—[Hon. Members: "The Prime Minister said so."]—the same rights as he has most vigorously asserted for himself? If they had been denied to the right hon. Gentleman, I can imagine the fury with which he would have addressed the Government from this Box
§ The Prime MinisterI have paid some tribute to the manner in which the party opposite conducted this aspect of our affairs, and, as I said, we have every intention of continuing, as they did, to keep alive the easy tradition that has grown up. Occasions will occur when there will be disputes, like this one, and these will be the ones by which the general tenor of our ways is maintained harmoniously. I beg the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) to wait until the letter I am sending him reaches him.
§ Mr. ShinwellI am glad to know that the right hon. Gentleman has communicated with me, but I have not yet 1365 received the letter. Is not much of what the right hon. Gentleman has said about this telegram business an afterthought? Is not this a discovery made after the event? Is it not true to say, and quite factual, that the Department did not advise me at the time, when I asked for copies of the document, that they would have no significance? They only informed me about that very long afterwards. All that I asked for was a copy of documents which were relevant to the debate. I was told that I could not have copies. There was not even a suggestion that I could have access to a copy of the telegram if I came to the Department. That was never mentioned to me at the time.
§ The Prime MinisterIn my letter and the enclosure which I am sending to the right hon. Gentleman there is a statement which was made by the persons who answered him at the end of the telephone. I think that one of them was his former private secretary.
§ Mr. ShinwellI am not complaining about that.
§ The Prime MinisterThey certainly thought that the right hon. Gentleman was satisfied and was not pressing the matter further. Let there be no doubt on the matter of principle. If the right hon. Gentleman wishes to have that document he has the right to have access to it, and if he wishes to do so now he has the right.
§ Mr. BowlesWould it not save a lot of trouble if back benchers also were allowed to see this document?
§ The Prime MinisterI think it might make a bad precedent. It certainly would cause no inconvenience if this particular telegram and the Ministerial comment upon it were made available, but I think it would be a bad precedent.