§ 1. Mr. Pageasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will grant licences to shipbuilders in this country to build ships for the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics similar to the 10 cargo vessels of 5,000 tons each ordered by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics from France.
§ The First Lord of the Admiralty (Mr. J. P. L. Thomas)Certainly, I would grant licences for such ships, but I know of no such order negotiated by British shipbuilders.
§ Mr. PageIs my right hon. Friend aware of the concern in British shipyards that the stringent application of the strategic goods order in this country and the rather looser application of such rules in continental shipyards is putting British shipyards at a disadvantage? Can he say whether there is any justification for that concern?
§ Mr. ThomasI have no evidence of that. Our rules are pretty generous. I have no evidence that our shipyards are being penalised in this way, but I have received no request for licences.
§ Mr. ShinwellCan the First Lord explain why it is that other N.A.T.O. countries with whom we are associated can accept such orders from the Soviet Union while British shipbuilders are prevented from accepting them?
§ Mr. ThomasThe point I made, and which I repeat to the right hon. Gentleman, is that we have not yet been offered them.
§ Mr. ShinwellI beg the right hon. Gentleman not to be evasive. It seems 2732 that there is some evasion in this matter, perhaps unwitting. On the assumption that British shipbuilders had the opportunity of tendering for the construction of vessels for the Soviet Union, would any exception be taken by the Admiralty?
§ Mr. ThomasOnly on strategic grounds. There is another Question on the Paper dealing with this point.
Mr. H. WilsonIs it not a fact that these restrictions are tighter in this country than in certain other countries? Does the right hon. Gentleman deny that? My second question is perhaps more important. Is it not a fact that even within the present strategic restrictions permitted by the Government, shipbuilders are deliberately boycotting Soviet orders?
§ Mr. ThomasI have no evidence of it. I can only say that I have not received any applications.
§ 5 and 6. Mr. Bingasked the First Lord of the Admiralty (1) why British shipyards are not permitted to accept orders from the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for merchant ships with a speed of over 12 knots;
(2) why British shipyards are not permitted to accept orders from the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for floating cranes, dredgers, and suction-dredgers.
§ Mr. J. P. L. ThomasThere are no such prohibitions.
§ Mr. BingHas the right hon. Gentleman seen the speech made in Manchester recently by the Soviet Ambassador in which he made this allegation, and will the right hon. Gentleman take steps to see that the position is made clear to the Soviet Trade Mission here?
§ Mr. ThomasCertainly. I have not seen the report of the speech which the hon. and learned Member mentions, but I will look it up. I hope that my answer will be a sufficient reply.
Mr. H. WilsonDoes the right hon. Gentleman recall that when I asked him whether the Admiralty was running a small private strategic list of its own, in contradistinction to that of the Board of Trade, he denied the existence of such a list? Is he aware that, apart from one shipbuilder in Newport whose contracts have been turned down by the Admiralty 2733 on strategic grounds, for the rest Admiralty officials have actually been pressing shipbuilders in this country to take Soviet orders, as I have been informed by the Board of Trade, and that it is the shipbuilders themselves who are refusing to take these large orders?
§ Mr. ThomasI was unaware of what the right hon. Member tells me. My knowledge does not lead me to believe that shipbuilders are not anxious to have these orders. My position is that I have not received any request for licences.
§ Mr. Hector HughesDoes the right hon. Gentleman realise that this matter has added urgency by reason of the lack of forward orders to be executed in the shipyards next year and the following years? On account of that, the shipyards may in those years be threatened with grave unemployment, particularly the Scottish shipyards.
§ Mr. ThomasYes, and although the immediate future is not as bad as some rumours have it, I am watching the future and am by no means complacent about it. Orders like these will be a great help.
§ 7. Mr. Bingasked the First Lord of the Admiralty which categories of vessels, contained in the list given by the Foreign Trade Minister of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to British businessmen in February last, a copy of which is in his possession, may now be ordered from British shipyards.
§ Mr. J. P. L. ThomasProvided they do not incorporate any features of special military importance, all types of ship on that list may be supplied except tankers, whaling factories, whale catchers and floating docks.
§ Mr. ThomasIt is capable of conversion to an anti-submarine vessel or a mine layer.
Mr. H. WilsonIn view of the confusion which obtains on this question about what shipbuilders can and cannot do, will not the right hon. Gentleman call the shipbuilders together? In view of the fact that in the recent wage claims they said they could not give higher wages because their order books were so short, will the right hon. Gentleman bring to their attention the fact that there 2734 are these orders waiting for them in the Soviet Union which the Government are prepared to accept?
§ Mr. ThomasI do not know if they are waiting for orders, but I will certainly take an opportunity of meeting the shipbuilders and will have this matter put on the agenda for discussion.