HC Deb 09 December 1954 vol 535 cc1116-9
Mr. H. Morrison

May I ask the Lord Privy Seal to state the business for next week?

The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Harry Crookshank)

Yes, Sir. The business for next week will be as follows:

MONDAY, 13TH DECEMBER AND TUESDAY, 14TH DECEMBER—Committee and remaining stages: National Insurance Bill.

In view of the urgent need to pass this Bill into law before the Christmas Recess, we shall ask the House to assist us in completing the remaining stages of this Bill by Tuesday, 14th December.

WEDNESDAY, 15TH DECEMBER—Debate on a Government Motion to take note of the four Reports from the Boundary Commissions.

Motions to approve: Draft Parliamentary Constituencies Orders.

THURSDAY, 16TH DECEMBER—It is hoped to complete consideration of the Motions to approve the Draft Parliamentary Constituencies Orders.

FRIDAY, 17TH DECEMBER—Committee and remaining stages: Wireless Telegraphy (Validation of Charges) Bill.

Second Reading: National Service Bill.

Committee stage: Money Resolution.

It will, no doubt, be convenient for me to inform the House of the likely dates of the Christmas Recess. I have already referred to the urgent need to pass the National Insurance Bill through both Houses before Christmas. We have also to pass the National Assistance Regulations. The dates we have in mind are as follows: to adjourn for Christmas on Wednesday, 22nd December, and to meet again on Tuesday, 25th January, but we shall only be able to adhere to these dates if the business that I have announced, and other necessary business, is completed.

Mr. Morrison

The right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that, at this stage, it is not possible to be certain that consideration of the Boundary Commission's recommendations will necessarily be completed on Thursday. I am not saying that they will not be completed, but neither I nor the right hon. Gentleman, at this stage, know how far the recommendations may prove controversial. Hon. Members concerned may wish to debate and divide on a certain number; we do not know whether that number will be great or small. Therefore, the position must be rather open.

My other point relates to the Financial Resolution to the National Insurance Bill. It is, of course, for the Chair to rule, and the Chair has all the final authority, but may I ask the right hon. Gentleman or the Minister of National Insurance, whoever is the appropriate Minister, whether the Government, in contriving the Financial Resolution, did not intend to exclude the possibility of Amendments being moved either to vary the contributions or the benefits, downward in one instance, and possibly upward in the other? May we take it that the Government, in drafting the Financial Resolution, did not intend 'to exclude such Amendments from consideration in Committee or on Report?

Mr. Crookshank

The right hon. Gentleman is right; it is not for me, ultimately, to pronounce on the matter. I can only say what was the Government's intention in drafting the Resolution. We had it in mind to make the Resolution as wide as possible so as to enable Amendments to be proposed relating to the rates of benefit and to the rates of contributions, including the Exchequer supplement. I can only hope that the drafting has followed the intention.

Mr. S. Silverman

Can I draw the right hon. Gentleman's attention to the fact that certain Motions for the appointment of Select Committees and one Joint Committee have not yet been passed because some of my hon. Friends and I have objected to them, in circumstances which, I think, he fully understands. Can he say when the Government will give time to discuss these Motions? Obviously, sooner or later, the House will desire to set up these Committees.

Mr. Crookshank

I cannot say when they will be taken. We would hope to get the Motions this week but, if not, then next week, I hope—but I cannot state a date. But what I will say to the hon. Gentleman—as he is probably the hon. Member most interested in the matter—is that I will try to give him advance notice of when I think we can find the time.

Mr. Bevan

In answer to the earlier question put by my right hon. Friend, the Leader of the House said that the Government had in mind that the Money Resolution in connection with the National Insurance Bill should be drawn so widely as to enable Amendments to be moved on benefits, contributions and the Government supplement—including, he said, the Government supplement. From that observation, do I understand that there will be an opportunity to move an Amendment to increase the supplement?

Mr. Crookshank

That was the general intention, but, as the right hon. Gentleman pointed out, I cannot lay down any ruling as to what is finally in order.

Mr. Bevan

The right hon. Gentleman did say "including the Exchequer supplement." Whatever may be the ruling of the Chair, I am asking what is the mind of the Government? Did they intend that the Financial Resolution should be so wide as to enable an Amendment to be moved to increase the Exchequer supplement to the National Insurance Fund?

Mr. Crookshank

I did not say anything about increasing. What I said was "to enable Amendments to be proposed relating to the rates of benefit and to the rates of contributions, including the Exchequer supplement."

Mr. Nabarro

Has my right hon. Friend's attention been drawn to the report of an important committee, presided over by Sir Hugh Beaver, on the subject of atmospheric pollution, or smog? Can he provide early facilities for a debate on this subject?

Mr. Crookshank

I am afraid not. The situation at present is as stated by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government, on 7th December. The committee's recommendations are being considered, and he will make a statement in due course.

Mr. Bevan

I am anxious to be quite clear about the Financial Resolution to the National Insurance Bill, because there have been so many discussions before about the width of such Resolutions. All we need to know is what the right hon. Gentleman has in mind. He has made a reference to the Government's contribution to the Fund. If he does not mean that it is the Government's desire to make the Financial Resolution wide enough to allow an Amendment to be made to increase, obviously he has made no concession at all, because we can always move to decrease. What I want to know is whether he had in mind the fact that we would be allowed to move an increase in the Government contribution.

Mr. Crookshank

The phrase which I used—and I think it is the technical one understood by those concerned in this matter — was "the Exchequer supplement."

Dr. King

Since we are discussing next week one of the most fundamental parts of the democratic structure of this country, and since reasoned objections have been made by hundreds of groups of people to the proposals of the Boundary Commissions, will the Minister lay before the House the detailed reasons why the Boundary Commissions have proposed their various changes?

Mr. Crookshank

That is a question for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government, and not for me.

Proceedings of the Committee on National Insurance [Money] exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of Standing Order No. 1 (Sittings of the House).—[The Prime Minister.]