HC Deb 27 April 1954 vol 526 cc1438-41
4. Mr. Wigg

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he sanctioned the employment as musician of 5631262 Sergeant R. Hibbs and 5361272 Lance-Corporal R. Hamlin, together with other soldiers of the Devonshire Regiment, at the Theatre Royal, Exeter, at a time when a dispute exists between the Musicians' Union and the owner of the theatre.

8. Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

asked the Secretary of State for War in what circumstances serving soldiers were last employed as musicians at the Theatre Royal, Exeter.

Mr. J. R. H. Hutchison

On three occasions in the past eight months, three or four bandsmen of the Devonshire Regiment played at this theatre in their off-duty hours and using their own instruments. No special leave or facilities were given to them, and, in these circumstances, prior approval was not required.

Mr. Wigg

How does the Minister square this answer with the fact that in correspondence with the Musicians' Union he has denied that soldiers were playing in this orchestra? Further, was he not aware that a dispute existed between the Musicians' Union and the Theatre Royal, Exeter, which has lasted for several months, and was not this fact well within the knowledge of the Officer Commanding the Devonshire Regiment Depôt?

Mr. Hutchison

As to the first part of the question, the hon. Gentleman will have to draw my attention to my denial, because I am not aware of having denied it in any correspondence in the past. So far as the existence of a trade dispute is concerned, there is very considerable doubt as to whether a trade dispute does, in fact, exist at the present time, and I am in contact with my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Labour.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Is the Undersecretary aware that strike pay is being paid by the Musicians' Union in connection with this dispute? How much longer is the War Office going to allow Service men to be used as blackleg labour to undercut the proper rates of the musicians who are doing the work?

Mr. H. Hynd

Does the hon. Gentleman's answer mean that any soldiers can take paid employment in their off-duty hours?

Mr. Hutchison

Yes, Sir, in their off-duty hours they can. Where there is a trade dispute, it is not our policy that they should act as was suggested by the hon. and gallant Member. I have already told hon. Members that I am looking into the question whether a trade dispute exists.

Mr. Shinwell

Has it not been the policy of the War Office for several years that Army bandsmen should not enter into competition with professional musicians? Why has that policy been modified?

Mr. Hutchison

The right hon. Gentleman is slightly confusing the point. He states the policy correctly in the case of a whole band, but where an individual likes to take up employment of this kind outside his Army hours, as long as he is not acting in a trade dispute, he is free to do so.

Mr. Shinwell

Why should Army bandsmen who are paid for full-time services by the War Office be permitted to undertake off-duty employment of this kind when it is well known that they are in competition with professional musicians?

Mr. Hutchison

That theory might be extended very far. In the right hon. Gentleman's time, soldiers were allowed, and indeed encouraged, to occupy themselves in ancillary pursuits in their own time, and it would be a grave interference if we were to stop that.

Mr. Wigg

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in January an affidavit was sent to the War Office swearing that serving soldiers were undertaking this work and that on 19th January the Director of Personal Services denied the incident which was revealed to him and said that the matter must be regarded as closed? Why does the hon. Gentleman now come along with a completely different tune?

Mr. Hutchison

I have not got the letter to which the hon. Gentleman is referring, but, if my memory serves me correctly, I think it made an allegation about a particular day and at a particular time. On that particular day at that particular time no such incident occurred.

Mr. Wigg

In view of the thoroughly unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

I also give notice to the same effect.