HC Deb 18 November 1953 vol 520 cc1699-701
11. Mr. Beswick

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air what steps have been taken to fill with suitable civilian personnel the 30 clerical posts in the London area, which were held in August of this year by National Service men.

Mr. Ward

The recruitment of staff through the Civil Service Commission continues, but civilian staff are not yet available to fill these 30 posts.

Mr. Beswick

Is not the hon. Gentleman contradicting himself? The fact is that he was dismissing suitable clerical staff at the same time as we are now discussing. Why was it not possible to fill these jobs, held by National Service men, with the civilian staff he was discharging?

Mr. Ward

I was talking in the first place of when the Records Office moved from Ruislip to Gloucester in May, 1952. The second Question refers to the present day.

Mr. Shinwell

Is this what the hon. Gentleman, the Government and the Royal Air Force want National Service men for? If civilian labour is available, why not use it and use National Service men for purely military purposes?

Mr. Ward

These established posts are for established clerical officers. At the moment we are not recruiting temporary civil servants because we expect that very shortly there will be redundancies in other Government Departments in established clerical staffs. We do not want to take on a lot of temporary clerks and make them redundant again.

Mr. Beswick

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that we are not asking him to take on anyone, but to cease dismissing people who could be employed in positions now held by uniformed Service men?

Mr. Ward

The hon. Member knows well that the only reason these men became redundant was because we moved the Records Office from Ruislip to Gloucester.

12. Mr. Beswick

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air how many other ranks are employed at Air Ministry offices in the London area; and how many of this number so employed are in service trades other than clerks, general duties, organisation, personnel and accounts.

Mr. Ward

261 and 152.

Mr. Beswick

Could not some of these positions held by clerical airmen be filled by the civilian employees who are being dismissed from the Air Ministry and other Departments?

Mr. Ward

I have just explained that at present we are not taking on temporary clerks.

Mr. Beswick

May we take it that the people who are being discharged from other Government Departments and the Air Ministry will now be given a chance of filling these positions held at the moment by uniformed airmen?

Mr. Ward

Yes, certainly. If established clerical civil servants become available from other Departments they will certainly be given a chance of employment at the Air Ministry.

Mr. Shinwell

Will the hon. Gentleman say quite categorically that it is not the policy of the Air Ministry to employ National Service men on non-regimental and non-military tasks which might be performed by civilians?

Mr. Ward

I can certainly say regarding the 30 people—

Mr. Shinwell

Two hundred and sixty.

Mr. Ward

We are talking about 30 people, as I am answering the third Question. I can give the assurance that as soon as we can fill these 30 posts for established clerks we shall do so.

Mr. Shinwell

Will the hon. Gentleman be good enough to reply to my question? It is quite a simple one. I want to know whether it is the policy of the Air Ministry to employ National Service men on tasks of this kind when civilian labour is available?

Mr. Ward

Certainly not.

Mr. Beswick

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the replies, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.