HC Deb 11 November 1953 vol 520 cc919-21
20. Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many thefts of mailbags in transit have occurred during the past year; and how the figure compares with the previous year.

Mr. Gammans

Out of roughly 350 million bags in transit, 734 bags were recorded as missing during the year ended 31st October, 1953. In the previous year the figure was 685.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Do not these figures reveal that the additional security precautions, which the Assistant Postmaster-General said were to be put into effect about a year ago, do not appear to be yielding satisfactory results, because the number of thefts is increasing and public anxiety is greater now than ever before?

Mr. Gammans

The number of bags stolen is not necessarily a good criterion. We have also to consider the number of bags which are tampered with, and where there has been pilfering going on. I can assure the hon. and gallant Member and the House that many increased precautions have been taken, but it would not be in the public interest to disclose what they are.

Mr. W. R. Williams

While thanking the Minister for the information he has already given, may I ask him two questions? First, is it not time that, in conjunction with British Railways, he tried to ensure that all railway mail vans are fitted with security cages not accessible to the travelling public? Secondly, is he and the administration perfectly satisfied that the arrangements on platforms, particularly at termini, are sufficiently good to give that measure of security which is necessary?

Mr. Gammans

The hon. Gentleman has raised a very big question. I can assure him on the first point that we have made arrangements with the railways to increase very rapidly the number of vans with cages in them. Regarding security generally, I must warn the House that Post Office security arrangements were made on the assumption that this is fundamentally an honest country. If we have to envisage gang robberies in the streets of London, or widespread pilfering, we shall have to introduce different methods of precaution all over the country.

Mr. Williams

It is a very serious thing and the reputation of a large number of Post Office workers is involved. Whatever may have been the practice in the past they are entitled to the fullest defence. Is it not therefore reasonable, if the circumstances nationally have changed, that we should be up to date in our preventive measures?

Mr. Gammans

We have much increased our precautionary measures during the past year, but as I have said, if we have to envisage an entirely different level of honesty in this country, then we shall have to change them even more drastically.

24. Mr. Russell

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what steps he proposes to take to improve the security of mailbags in transit on British Railways.

Mr. Gammans

It would not be in the public interest for me to reveal the exact details of the security arrangements agreed between the Post Office and British Railways for the security of mails travelling by rail, but I can assure my hon. Friend that they are continuously adapted to meet, as far as possible, the changing circumstances of our times.

Mr. Russell

Is my hon. Friend aware that mailbags are frequently left lying about on dingy station platforms after dark, where anybody can tamper with them, and does he think that the most secure method of dealing with them?

Mr. Gammans

No, Sir. I thought I had dealt with this matter pretty thoroughly when answering a previous Question. These arrangements have been in force for many years and have hitherto proved adequate. But, if the circumstances have changed, we may have to change our methods as well.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Can the Minister give an assurance that in respect of mailbags there is a closer degree of cooperation now between the Post Office and the railway police than there may have been a year or two ago?

Mr. Gammans

When letters go by rail they are primarily the responsibility of British Railways and the Post Office.

Mr. G. Jeger

Does the hon. Gentleman take account of the changed circumstances in that we now have a Government who are giving every encouragement to private enterprise and, consequently, greater security is necessary?

Mr. Gammans

The Government may be giving every encouragement to private enterprise, but they are certainly not giving every encouragement to thieves and robbers.