HC Deb 14 May 1953 vol 515 cc1393-6
18. Mr. Nabarro

asked the Minister of Health whether he will state the aggregate annual coal, coke and fuel oil consumption of the hospitals and institutions vested in him; what steps have been taken to inspire greater attention to fuel efficiency and coal conservation; and, in view of the coal position, what special steps he proposes in this connection.

Mr. Iain Macleod

I am afraid I do not possess the information asked for in the first part of the Question. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of a circular which my predecessor sent to hospital authorities on the subject calling for regular returns of fuel consumption from the larger hospitals. Where these returns suggest inefficient use of fuel, the authority's attention will be drawn to it, and a visit paid by one of my engineers if necessary.

Mr. Nabarro

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the circular to which he referred bears the date 1951, when conditions were rather different from the conditions obtaining today? In view of the fact that iron and steel are no longer rationed, and that there are fewer restrictions on capital investment, will my right hon. Friend consider drawing the attention of the regional boards to the urgency for fuel conservation in the immediate future?

Mr. Macleod

The circular to which I referred is not dated 1951; it is dated February, 1952. It is quite true that steel is no longer a limiting factor, but the ceiling on capital investment still is, and I cannot ask hospital authorities to give exclusive priority to this sort of work, although I fully recognise its importance, and it may be that not enough attention has been paid to this class of work.

Mr. Manuel

Can the right hon. Gentleman indicate whether attention is paid to the type of fuel-saving appliances which are being installed in hospitals? When the time is appropriate and when supplies of steel are more plentiful, would he be prepared to advise regional hospital boards throughout the country on what is the best type of fuel-saving appliance instead of leaving it to private interests in this country to push their own barrows all the time in order to get their particular fuel-saving appliance accepted?

Mr. Macleod

I will send the hon. Member a copy of the circular I have issued, which gives those details, but I will certainly not take the action suggested in the last part of his question, which would imply a complete lack of confidence in hospital boards.

19. Mr. Nabarro

asked the Minister of Health to what extent capital expenditure limitation put upon the regional hospital boards is arresting or delaying necessary re-equipment schemes for power and heating and thus leading to coal wastage: and whether, after consulting the regional boards, he will make a statement.

Mr. Iain Macleod

This information is not available, and I do not think I should be justified in putting boards to the expenditure of time and labour that would be necessary to get it. I have, however, drawn their attention to the point, and I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of a circular in which I suggested that they should have regard to schemes of the type he has in mind.

Mr. Nabarro

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there is a special problem here affecting hospitals, namely, that their capital investment programmes are restricted and that quite clearly the regional boards will, as a first priority, devote their available funds to medical equipment and buildings to house it, with the result that fuel efficiency will get relatively a very low position in the order of priority?

Mr. Macleod

I do not dissent from much of that. As I said in reply to an earlier supplementary question, it may be that too little attention is paid to this side of capital work, and these Questions help to emphasise the importance of it, but I think it right that the boards themselves should settle their own priorities in this matter.

Mr. Stokes

Will the right hon. Gentleman pay regard to the fact that in hospitals, particularly, saving can be effected not so much through a particular unit but through paying attention to the necessity for rationalising boilerhouses? They usually have far too many.

Mr. Blenkinsop

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most hospital management committees are very anxious to proceed on these lines? Will he do something to persuade the Chancellor of the Exchequer to give them more money with which to do it?

Mr. Macleod

I am certainly most anxious to get as much money for capital investment in this service as I can, and it is no doubt true that many of our hospitals are old and out of date and, as a result, uneconomic in many respects.

20. Mr. Nabarro

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that Barnsley Hall Hospital, Worcestershire, consumes approximately 3,000 tons of coal per annum and that proposals to re-equip power and heating arrangements at the hospital, thereby saving 540 tons of coal per annum, were first made in 1947; that the regional board were informed of the proposal when the hospital was vested in the Minister of Health; that the scheme has been deferred annually since 1947 for reasons attributed to steel and cast-iron shortage; and whether, in view of the ending of iron and steel allocations, the free availability of supplies and the need to conserve coal, he will now authorise the scheme to proceed without delay.

Mr. Iain Macleod

I am informed that the regional board have had this scheme before them since 1949 but have not so far felt able to give it priority over other urgent capital schemes in their area. It will be reviewed by the board along with other schemes of this kind, and I cannot say when they will be able to proceed with it.

Mr. Nabarro

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it might be useful to take the initiative in this case, in view of the waste of coal which is going on. Even in the short time since 1949 2,000 tons of coal has been needlessly wasted through the scheme not being proceeded with, which represents the productive effort of six coalface workers for a full year.

Mr. Stokes

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind in this matter that what I was trying to impress upon him was the use of fewer boilers, not more?

Mr. Macleod

I have taken the right hon. Gentleman's point. As for my hon. Friend's question, I fully agree with the importance of this matter, and I am always ready to ask my engineers to investigate any report which there may be of fuel inefficiency. I recognise that there may well be difficulties in the future over coal stocks, and it is important for all hospitals to review their policy in this field.