HC Deb 23 March 1953 vol 513 cc476-80
33. Mr. T. Brown

asked the Minister of National Insurance if he has seen the official survey into the economic and social conditions of old people, which reveals serious conditions; and if he will now bring forward legislation to increase the basic pension rates for the non-contributory and contributory pensioners.

Mr. Peake

I assume the hon. Member is referring to a recent article in the British Journal of Nutrition regarding an inquiry made between January, 1950, and March, 1951, into the diets of some 300 elderly people in Sheffield. The inquiry did not disclose any general malnutrition. In any case both retirement pensions and National Assistance scales have since been substantially increased, and I do not think it has much bearing on the adequacy of the provision now being made for old people.

Mr. Brown

Is the Minister aware that his assumptions arise on an entirely incorrect basis? The Question does not refer to the survey taken in Sheffield, nor a survey of 1951. It refers to the survey which is being taken in certain parts of this country as revealed in the "Daily Express" a few weeks ago. Is the right hon. Gentleman's Department—he himself may not know of it—aware of the survey and the revelations that the survey has given to the people?

Mr. Peake

The "Daily Express" article, to which the hon. Gentleman referred, did refer back to this survey which is the only official inquiry of which I am aware, which took place in the year 1950. Since that date there has been no official survey at all.

Mr. Brown

Surely the right hon. Gentleman is aware of what is taking place in investigations that are being made into the social and economic conditions of old people, and why does not his Department get on their hind legs and either deny or confirm what the inquiry has revealed?

Mr. Peake

There is an inquiry proceeding and also contemplated, but no results have yet come to hand.

Mr. Keenan

Is the Minister not aware that a non-contributory pensioner actually gets 5s. a week pension less than the scale of the National Assistance Board, and does not that disclose to him that if the National Assistance scale is 59s. for a couple, other pensioners are getting well below what they ought to get?"

Mr. Peake

This Government have only followed the example of their predecessors in their attitude towards the non-contributory pensioner. A great many non-contributory pensioners do avail themselves of the supplementation of the National Assistance Board.

34. Miss Burton

asked the Minister of National Insurance whether he has considered the letter from the national general secretary of the Old-Age Pensioners' Association concerning the take-up of rationed foods; and what reply has been sent.

Mr. Peake

As neither I nor my right hon. Friend the Minister of Food has recently received a letter from the Association, I assume the hon. Member is referring to a recent article in the "Old Age Pensioner." The article set out a weekly budget, the total of which, excluding insurances, was approximately the same as the amount provided by the current national assistance scales. The figures given, even if one were to accept them as typical, do not therefore support the assertion made in the article that pensioners could not afford to buy enough food.

Miss Burton

On a point of order. Before I ask a supplementary, may I ask for your guidance, Mr. Speaker, on this matter. It seems most extraordinary, because I asked you for help on the matter of this question. It was sent to the Ministry of Food and was transferred to the Ministry of National Insurance. I received a letter from the Minister of Food stating that this had been sent to the Minister of National Insurance, but the Minister now says he has not received it. I did not send him an article, and it seems most extraordinary as to whether or not the Old Age Pensioners' Association have sent this letter.

Mr. Speaker

I do not know about it.

Mr. Peake

Further to that point of order. The Question asks whether I considered a letter from the general secretary of the Old Age Pensioners' Association. I said in my answer I had received no such letter, but that I assumed the hon. Lady was referring to an open letter which was published in the "Old Age Pensioner."

Miss Burton

Will the Minister tell the House if in his opinion and that of the Government, the old age pensioners are able to buy food and light—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Croydon, East (Sir H. Williams) has not seen the letter at all. Might I ask the Minister whether he can inform the House that he and the Government believe that the old age pensioners are in a position to buy the food, light and heat that they need.

Mr. Peake

From my previous answers, I think it is perfectly clear that the supplementation given by the Assistance Board is adequate for the needs of the people whose interests they serve. As to the letter and article to which the hon. Lady refers, the article was definitely misleading. It gives the false and deliberate impression that supplementation by the Assistance Board was not available to pensioners without any other resources.

Mrs. Braddock

Is the Minister aware that the replies he has given will be noted by the old age pensioner who will take it that the statements he has made make it clear that the old age pensioners are deliberately lying about their income to obtain more.

Sir H. Williams

Is it in order for hon. Members, having received an answer to a direct question, to put entirely different questions outside the scope of the original one?

Mr. Speaker

I must be the judge of that.

35. Mr. Chetwynd

asked the Minister of National Insurance what action he is taking to ensure that old age pensioners have adequate financial resources to celebrate the Coronation.

Mr. Peake

I do not think any special action is called for on my part.

Mr. Chetwynd

As the present rate of pension is scarcely adequate to meet the necessities of life, how does the right hon. Gentleman expect the old age pensioners to be able to play a full part in all the different activities of the Coronation unless some extra grant is made to them, either by way of assistance or pension?

Mr. Peake

As the hon. Member knows, there are 4¾ million pensioners. A large majority have other resources. I do not think it would be reasonable to use Exchequer grants on this occasion when other people, who are not pensioners, are equally deserving.

Mr. T. Brown

Is not the Minister aware that it would not require any grant from the Exchequer? It can be done from the surplus funds accumulated in the National Insurance Fund. Can he not deal with the matter from that fund?

Mr. Peake

I do not think it would be reasonable to use those contributions for this isolated and special case.

37. Rev. LI. Williams

asked the Minister of National Insurance what percentage of the total population in areas of the Nantyglo and Blaina, Abertillery, Abercorn Urban District Councils is composed of old age pensioners; and what is the percentage of old age pensioners in relation to the whole country.

Mr. Peake

The proportion of the population of Great Britain in receipt of retirement and old age pensions is just over 9 per cent. Figures are not available for local areas.