HC Deb 10 March 1953 vol 512 cc1118-9
38. Mr. Simmons

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the estimated annual saving which will be effected by the extinction of the Ministry of Pensions.

39. Mr. Chetwynd

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the estimated saving in money and staff of the decision to combine the Ministry of National Insurance and the Ministry of Pensions, giving separate figures for 1953–54 and the first full year of the amalgamation.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I have nothing to add to the reply which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister gave to the right hon. Member for Battersea, North (Mr. Jay) on 2nd March.

Mr. Simmons

Are we to understand that the Government have taken the decision while being entirely in the dark about the saving in staff and money? Before such an attack was made upon ex-Service men, surely there must have been good grounds for it?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

While not accepting the implication of the last part of the supplementary question, which is a very obverse fact, I must remind the hon. Gentleman that the supplementary question was both asked of and answered by my right hon. Friend.

Mr. Jay

Though it may not be surprising to find that the hon. Gentleman cannot answer the question, are we now to understand that the Treasury also does not know the figures?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would like to put that question to my right hon. Friend.

Mr. Chetwynd

In view of the obvious reluctance of the Government to give any of these figures, are we to understand that, instead of there being a saving, there will be increased cost under this arrangement?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

No, Sir.

Mr. Nabarro

Is my hon. Friend aware that, whatever is the amount of the financial saving compatible with an efficient service to the pensioner, it will be extremely welcome to the taxpayers? Is my hon. Friend also aware that the general body of taxpayers will welcome this measure as a precursor to the elimination of the Ministry of Food and the Ministry of Materials?