§ 22. Mr. S. 0. Daviesasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs when he was informed by the United States 20 Government of their directive to introduce in Korea widespread germ warfare.
§ Mr. Selwyn LloydThe United States Government have not communicated to Her Majesty's Government any directive about the introduction of germ warfare in Korea. Germ warfare has never been used by the United Nations forces in Korea; and I believe that the allegation that any such directive has been issued is complete nonsense.
§ Mr. DaviesHas the right hon. and learned Gentleman been made aware of the report that was recently published by two high-ranking American officers who have served for a considerable time in Korea, and are still in Korea, about the use of germ warfare there, where amongst other things an effort was made to lay a cholera belt across North Korea? Surely the right hon. and learned Gentleman ought to make inquiries into these facts when they are known to the public although deliberately denied by this Government?
§ Mr. LloydThe hon. Gentleman refers to reports and facts. The lapse of time between the capture of these officers and the publication of this story was, I should have thought, in itself enough to throw doubt on the truth and spontaneity of the so-called confessions.
§ Mr. NicholsonOn a point of order. Is it not a rule in this House that an hon. Member makes himself responsible for the allegations made in his Question? Is it not wholly undesirable that insinuations of this sort should be made if there is no truth in them?
§ Mr. DaviesFurther to that point of order——
§ Mr. NicholsonMay I have an answer?
§ Mr. SpeakerHon. Members, as I have frequently said, must make themselves responsible for any statement of fact included in their Questions. In order to preserve the utmost possible freedom of speech I think that rule ought to be adhered to, uncomfortable though it sometimes is in its consequences. On the other hand, it does impose, in my judgment, a sense of responsibility on hon. Members as to Questions which they should put on the Order Paper. If that 21 sense of responsibility animates the exercise of that freedom, we shall get the benefits of freedom without its abuses.
§ Mr. DaviesAm I to understand that you, Mr. Speaker, impute that by putting down this Question I was not supported by facts, and that I was not fully justified by facts in placing it on the Order Paper?
§ Mr. SpeakerI am not imputing anything against the hon. Member. I merely showed, as I wish to do, for the guidance of the House, the general principle which should govern the putting of Questions on the Order Paper, I have not the slightest doubt that the hon. Member fully believes he was justified in doing what he did, and I have made no allegations to the contrary.
§ Mr. NicholsonFurther to the point of order. The Question asks whether my right hon. Friend was informed by the United States Government of their directive, and that implies that in the hon. Member's mind such a directive was issued. No one has yet even claimed that, and surely it calls for a very severe rebuke.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe Question undoubtedly implies that the hon. Member who asked it knows or believes that such a directive was issued, but that is as far as it goes.
§ Mr. DaviesFurther to that point of order. We are told that this is a United Nations war in Korea, and I contend as a Member of Parliament that the Government ought to have been told before additional horrors were perpetrated in Korea. I still adhere to my facts.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIs it not a fact that a Chinese lady Communist in Bulgaria announced that germ warfare would be used in Korea six months before the Chinese Government said that it had been used, thereby showing it was a carefully prepared propaganda stunt?
§ Mr. LloydWhat the right hon. Gentleman has just said is quite correct. It is remarkable that these new charges were produced by the Peking Radio on 22nd February, the exact anniversary of the launching in 1952 of the germ warfare legend. It is also significant that the season for normal epidemics in Korea usually begins at the end of February.
Air Commodore HarveyAs this matter now stands, the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydvil (Mr. S. 0. Davies) stands by what he alleges in that Question.
§ Mr. DaviesAbsolutely.
Air Commodore HarveyMy right hon. and learned Friend has emphatically denied it, and is it not right, therefore, that the hon. Member should withdraw this Question?
§ Mr. DaviesI stand by it. I am trying to get the truth from the Government side of the House.
§ Mr. SpeakerMatters of that sort must be left to the judgment of the House. The hon. and gallant Gentleman must take his own course with regard to that, and the House must form its own opinion.
§ Later—
§ Mr. NicholsonOn a point of Order. May I, Mr. Speaker, ask your guidance still further on Question No. 22, which reads:
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs when he was informed by the United States Government of their directive to introduce in Korea widespread germ warfare.It raises an important question of principle, because it is well known that there never was any directive. As a result, I want to ask how that Question passed the Table and why the hon. Member was not asked to put in the word "alleged" before "directive." May I ask how this House can express its abhorrence of such irresponsible spreading of charges without foundation?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe answer to the first part of the hon. Member's question is that if the Question had been submitted with the word "alleged" in it, it would not have been in order. Questions must proceed upon a basis of fact for which the hon. Member makes himself responsible and, therefore, the Question was strictly in order. As to the view the House takes of the matter, that is not a question of order.
§ Captain PilkingtonFurther to that point of order. If the hon. Member cannot be induced to withdraw his disgraceful allegation, can it be made clear that he is in a minority of one?
§ Mr. DaviesCan you advise me, Mr. Speaker, as an hon. Member of this House, what steps I can take to break the conspiracy which exists in this Government against facts being made known regarding Korea to the people of this country?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is not a question for me. As far as I am concerned, I have been careful, whatever I may think, to give the hon. Member absolute freedom for his own opinions.
§ Mr. H. MorrisonWhilst not agreeing with the point of view of my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydvil (Mr. S. O. Davies), it surely is the case, is it not, that if an hon. Member wishes to bring up an important case of this kind by way of Question he must allege it and take responsibility for the allegation? I understand that is the rule as to Parliamentary Questions. Secondly, would it not be wrong, as has been put to you, to argue that, because the Government deny the alleged facts, the hon. Member is thereby necessarily proved wrong? May I submit that on both points the point of order falls down? As I say, I take a different view from my hon. Friend, but I think that we have to accept the point that if Ministers deny the truth of what an hon. Member has put down and he has then to withdraw his Question, that would endanger the liberties of the House.
§ Mr. SpeakerI think the right hon. Gentleman has stated the position perfectly accurately and in accordance with what I said when the matter was previously raised. Whatever we may think, we must be careful to preserve to hon. Members their freedom of speech which, as I said before, carries with it a great deal of responsibility.
§ The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Harry Crookshank)Is there not a difference to be drawn between allegations of actions of Her Majesty's Government and allegations of actions of friendly Powers?
§ Mr. BowlesSurely it is in the recollection of everyone in this House that the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Foreign Secretary all through the Spanish Civil War denied that there were German or Italian troops in Spain at all?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat raises a very much larger question.
§ Captain PilkingtonWhen the allegation the hon. Member has made is so damaging, surely it is up to him to produce the evidence and, when he has not done so, should he not withdraw?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is a matter for the hon. Member to decide and for the House.
§ Mr. NicholsonAccording to your Ruling, Sir, there can be no limit to the fantastic and untruthful nature of any allegation any hon. Member tries to embody in a Question, because there is apparently to be no limit to charges that are entirely without foundation to which currency can be given by means of Parliamentary Questions? Is not the House entitled to protection?
§ Mr. SpeakerThere are certain limits but, on the other hand, it is very important in this House to maintain the rights of hon. Members.
§ Mr. CrookshankSurely the rights of hon. Members do not extend to making allegations against friendly Powers for which they cannot bring evidence?
§ Mr. DaviesIf the right hon. Gentleman——
§ Mr. SpeakerThe right hon. Gentleman will see the difficulty in what he proposes. It is that if the hon. Member is challenged he would produce what he considers to be evidence. We have had this matter raised on an Adjournment debate already by the hon. Member, in which he submitted, as evidence, evidence we have already read in the public Press. That is the difficulty with which the House are confronted.