HC Deb 29 June 1953 vol 517 cc27-32
Mr. Attlee

Before asking the Chancellor of the Exchequer the Question of which I have given him Private Notice, may I express, on behalf of hon. Members on all sides of the House, our regret at the indisposition of the Prime Minister and our hope for his early recovery?

May I now ask the Chancellor whether he has any statement to make about the conduct of business during the Prime Minister's absence from the House.

Mr. C. Davies

Before the Chancellor replies, may I join in what has been said by the Leader of the Opposition? We all combine in earnestly wishing for a speedy return of the Prime Minister in his usual robust health.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. R. A. Butler)

The Prime Minister will hear with great satisfaction the very kind words of both right hon. Gentlemen, on behalf of their hon. Friends, and I will make a point of passing on their expression of sympathy to him.

The answer is as follows:

The House will have learned with regret that the Prime Minister has been advised to take a complete rest, and that the Bermuda conference has been postponed with the concurrence of the United States and French Governments. In order to maintain the impetus given to our foreign policy by the Bermuda proposal consultations are now proceeding for an early interim meeting of Ministers to discuss certain urgent problems of common concern. In that event, Her Majesty's Government will be represented at the meeting by my noble Friend the Lord President of the Council.

The Prime Minister will keep in close touch with events, but he will not be able to resume his full duties for at least a month. During that time he will have the assistance of the Lord President in matters of foreign policy, though the Minister of State will continue to be responsible for the day to day conduct of Foreign Office business.

The Leader of the House, the Lord Privy Seal, and I will share the responsibility for making any statements or answering any Questions in this House on matters of general Government policy.

Mr. Attlee

With regard to the Foreign Office during the absence of the Prime Minister, I should like to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he realises that this announcement causes us some disquiet? In one's experience the Foreign Office must be looked after either by the Foreign Secretary or by the Prime Minister, or by a Cabinet Minister deputed to do that work. Without the slightest reflection on the Minister of State or the Under-Secretary, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he realises that the Foreign Office does require the close attention of a senior Minister all the time and that a kind of indirect and divided control—especially at times when foreign affairs are in such a fluid condition—seems to us unsatisfactory? Will it not be possible to have a Cabinet Minister definitely in control of the Foreign Office?

Mr. Butler

If the right hon. Member will refer to the terms of my reply he will see that the Prime Minister himself will be in touch with events and that he will have the assistance of my noble Friend the Lord President in matters of foreign policy. I think it would be hard to find a Minister of more experience in this sphere than the Lord President of the Council. Not only that, but the Foreign Office itself will be manned by the Minister of State and the two Under-Secretaries, one in this House and one in another place, who will themselves be responsible for the day to day transactions of the normal routine business. I should, therefore, have thought, with all possible respect and deference to the opinion of the right hon. Member, that the Foreign Office will be in exceedingly good hands and, as I have said, if there be a meeting the Lord President of the Council will attend that meeting and represent the Foreign Office and Her Majesty's Government.

Mr. Attlee

While I entirely appreciate the qualities of the Lord President of the Council, I should have thought that if the Prime Minister wanted a complete rest he should be free from coming to many decisions on foreign affairs. Is it not quite impossible for junior Ministers, however able, to give the kind of authoritative lead that is needed? It seems to me that the Lord President of the Council, in the position as stated, is in a very semi-detached position. If the Lord President of the Council is the right Minister, one would think that he should definitely be in charge of the Foreign Office while the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are away ill so that there should be a responsible Cabinet Minister with close control throughout the whole time.

Mr. Butler

Perhaps the right hon. Member and hon. Members opposite have been confused by the form of the statement. I can assure them that the Lord President is not semi-detached in this matter at all. He has plunged straight into the foreign situation in which, incidentally, he was well versed before he took on the extra duty of assisting the Prime Minister. I think it would be a great pity if the Prime Minister were not available for matters of supreme urgency and importance to be referred to him. Apart from that I can assure the right hon. Member that there will be no confusion but that there will be the drive which he so much desires.

Mr. Attlee

I want to be quite clear. Obviously, the Prime Minister is always consulted on major matters of foreign policy. Will the Lord President be, in effect, acting Foreign Secretary?

Mr. Butler

The position will be as I have stated it, but the right hon. Member may feel satisfied that the Lord President of the Council will be the Cabinet Minister who is hourly in touch with foreign affairs, handling and transacting the business of foreign affairs and will so advise the Cabinet with the aid of the Minister of State.

Mr. A. Henderson

I asked the right hon. Gentleman last week who will answer Questions on foreign affairs which hitherto have been answered by the Prime Minister and the Lord Privy Seal promised that a statement would be made. Nothing has been included in the statement today about that. May I ask which senior Minister will answer Questions on foreign affairs which, previously, were addressed to and answered by the Prime Minister?

Mr. Butler

I think it would be as well if a statement were made clearing up the matter, which is obviously one of great importance. Normally, Foreign Office Questions can be put to the Minister of State, and addressed, therefore, to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. There may well be Questions which the House will desire to be answered either by myself or by the Lord Privy Seal. I think that we should make a statement to clear up the matter to the satisfaction of the House.

Mr. Bellenger

With reference to the projected meeting of Ministers, is it intended that they should meet at Bermuda or is it proposed that there should be some other location for the meeting; and has the right hon. Gentleman an early date in mind for such a meeting?

Mr. Butler

The answer to the latter part of the right hon. Gentleman's Question is, Yes, Sir. If such a meeting does materialise it will be in the very near future, and I hope it will. In regard to the location of the meeting, as consultations are just in the early stage and I cannot pledge other Governments, I should prefer to defer making a further statement until the consultations are concluded.

Mr. Callaghan

In reference to what the Chancellor has said about arrangements, will he, when considering the matter, remember that we have now only eight Cabinet Ministers responsible to the House of Commons who are on the active list, a lower proportion perhaps than for a long time; and when discussing future arrangements will he consider the suggestion of my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition that there should be a senior Minister who should not only give answers put into his mouth by somebody else but who should be directly responsible in this House to answer Questions by Members on international affairs in what is a very fluid and changing situation.

Mr. Butler

Without departing from what I have said about the qualities of those Ministers who will be in charge of the Foreign Office, my reply is that every possible consideration will be taken into account by the Government in order to serve the House to the best of our ability. May I also say that we shall take account of the unique qualities and capacities of the Ministers who sit on the Government Front Bench?