HC Deb 29 June 1953 vol 517 cc23-5
50. Mr. Shinwell

asked the Prime Minister whether, owing to the absence of the Minister of Defence from the House of Commons, he will arrange for the Minister to address a meeting of hon. Members in a Committee room and furnish information on the work of his Department, including a survey of the activities and strength of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.

The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Harry Crookshank)

I have been asked to reply. On 30th of January, 1952, my right hon. Friend informed the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition of the arrangements which would be made for dealing with defence questions in this House. Those arrangements have proved satisfactory and Her Majesty's Government see no reasons for modifying or supplementing them. If a debate on the particular topics referred to by the right hon. Gentleman is desired, the matter should be pursued through the usual channels.

Mr. Shinwell

Without any discourtesy to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Defence, is there any reason within logic or common sense why hon. Members in this House should be precluded from hearing at first hand from the Minister of Defence or even from other overlord Ministers in another place, a statement on the work of their Departments? Is there any reason why we should be content merely to hear secondhand statements from the Parliamentary Secretary?

Mr. Crookshank

In the normal course of the formation of Governments, whether of Conservative or other complexion, certain Ministers are in another place and certain of them are here. Steps are taken to see that those who are in this House are fully capable and competent to deal with all matters affecting their Departments, which is, of course, the fact in this case.

Mr. Shinwell

It is precisely because it is not the case that I am asking that this innovation should be agreed to by the Government. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when the Labour Government were in office we were asked to adopt this idea? Now that it has been suggested, will the right hon. Gentleman, at any rate, give it consideration?

Mr. Crookshank

It is not very clear what the right hon. Gentleman has in mind. I have explained the present situation with regard to defence debates, and if the right hon. Gentleman refreshes his memory by referring to what my right hon. Friend said on that earlier occasion he will notice that the Prime Minister reserved the right to take part in all major matters dealing with defence in this House.

Mr. Shinwell

Does that not regrettably emphasise the present need for having the Minister of Defence, who knows all about these matters, in a Committee Room upstairs, where hon. Members on all sides of the House could ask him questions or, at any rate, hear about the activities of his Department?

Sir H. Williams

The right hon. Gentleman could ask him.

Mr. Crookshank

I quite see the point that the right hon. Gentleman opposite is making. I am trying to distinguish between any arrangements for formal Committees to be addressed by Ministers upstairs in substitution for debates or discussions—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] I am making a distinction between that and any informal gatherings which might take place from time to time. The right hon. Gentleman and everybody else in the House knows that there are many ways of establishing contacts with Ministers without having to make special arrangements, as seem to be outlined in his Question.

Mr. Shinwell

I am sorry to press this matter, but do I understand from the right hon. Gentleman—I am grateful to him if I understand him aright—that if through the usual channels, a meeting of this kind, of an informal character, is arranged, the Government would raise no objection?

Mr. Crookshank

No. It has nothing to do with the usual channels. I was trying to make the distinction between what happens in this House, which is an arrangement of business arranged either between myself and the right hon. Gentleman's colleague on the Front Bench opposite or through the usual channels, and any sort of gatherings, of whatever nature, which might take place elsewhere.